Is tasering torture? - Page 2

Aliantha · 10-29-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I'm not so big on the "it's ok to shoot somebody over your stuff" mentality....

Well over here the cops promise to protect people and property.

If some dick is deliberately destroying an object with malicious intent I think they should tazer the bugger if he doesn't stop. Surely it'd be better than shooting him (or her).

xoxoxoBruce · 10-29-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well over here the cops promise to protect people and property.

They say that here, also. It's bullshit both here and there.
Unless the have a cop on every other front porch, how on earth can they protect everybody and their property?

queequeger · 10-29-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They say that here, also. It's bullshit both here and there.
Unless the have a cop on every other front porch, how on earth can they protect everybody and their property?

Right, which is why I don't have a problem with tasers. I would even get one if I still lived in a 'dangerous' area. Guns are too lethal to be reasonable. On the one hand is your car (which you could and should insure, anyway) and another is someone's LIFE. If someone tries to beak into your home, tase the crap out of them. It just seems shooting is a little excessive punishment for the crime.

Aliantha · 10-29-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They say that here, also. It's bullshit both here and there.
Unless the have a cop on every other front porch, how on earth can they protect everybody and their property?

I wasn't even trying to suggest that cops anywhere can be expected to protect everyone and everything. Just that it's part of their job description, and it was in response to Spexx making a comment about not shooting people over 'stuff'.

I don't think people should be shot over stuff either, but I'd be fairly amenable to a good tazering if some shithead tried to steal my car.

lumberjim · 10-30-2007, 12:11 AM

i think people should be shot if they invade your home and attempt to steal your sense of security. Or stabbed, or bludgeoned with a bat, or tazered if it's all you have to hand.....

Hell, one time I came home early and went up stairs to find jinx hiding behind the bedroom entry brandishing a slipper......good thing she recognized me, i could have sustained a very serious red patch of skin if she had struck me with it. hey...it had a hard rubber sole!

Aliantha · 10-30-2007, 12:15 AM

I'd go for glen20 in the eyes, then a kick to the groin, followed by a knee to the chin and then I'd kick them in the guts while they're on the floor. I'd probably keep doing that till they started bleeding out of their arse.

At least, that's what I tell myself in my mind. It might go somewhat differently, but at least I've got a plan.

ZenGum · 10-30-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Hell, one time I came home early and went up stairs to find jinx hiding behind the bedroom entry brandishing a slipper......good thing she recognized me, i could have sustained a very serious red patch of skin if she had struck me with it. hey...it had a hard rubber sole!

That was foreplay you fool. Down on your knees, Dogboy!

TheMercenary · 11-05-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queequeger

Right, which is why I don't have a problem with tasers. I would even get one if I still lived in a 'dangerous' area. Guns are too lethal to be reasonable. On the one hand is your car (which you could and should insure, anyway) and another is someone's LIFE. If someone tries to beak into your home, tase the crap out of them. It just seems shooting is a little excessive punishment for the crime.

Home invasions are on the rise. People are brutalized or even murdered for some thug to get some cash. If you break into my home expect to be shot by me or my wife. If I confront you stealing one of my cars and you do not run away expect to be shot.

Spexxvet · 11-05-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Home invasions are on the rise. People are brutalized or even murdered for some thug to get some cash. If you break into my home expect to be shot by me or my wife. If I confront you stealing one of my cars and you do not run away expect to be shot.

Noted. *makes notation in "people to kill before robbing" book*

wolf · 11-05-2007, 09:03 PM

The police have no legal obligation to protect persons or property.

Deshaney v. Winnebago County Dept of Social Services (U.S. Supreme Court)

Pinder v. Johnson (4th Circuit Court of Appeals)

.. a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen...

-- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)
(I tried to find a link to the full case citation for Warren, but haven't been able to locate one ... ditto for Balestreri v. Pacifica Police)

~~~~~

Back to Tasers ...

I've seen a lot of people post tasering. I wasn't at work the night the guy got tasered in the lobby, though.

In the continuum of things that police may do to attempt to control someone's behavior, tasers seem to be about the best. It's more effective than pepper spray, which carries a warning that it's not effective on psychiatric patients, and it's more human than a full strength kick in the nuts.

I've said before that the key ingredient for fatalities seems to be cocaine use. Every cop that's carrying a taser has had it used on him/her, and if they were truly that lethal, there'd be cops dropping like flies all over the country.

Aliantha · 11-06-2007, 02:01 AM

Cops on the gold coast tasered a melbourne cup reveler this arvy. He was on the ground but making it almost impossible for him to be restrained and he kept mouthing off. They warned him he was about to be tazered if he didn't submit and he got worse, so they tazered him, then he mouthed off some more and taunted them. It was all filmed very clearly with dialogue included and presented on the news today.

I'd say the drunken fool will be wishing he hadn't in the morning.

queequeger · 11-06-2007, 05:25 AM

Wolf, those are common cases referenced. It doesn't mean the police aren't obligated to help you if you're wronged. It means you can't hold the government liable if you get wronged when no cops are around or aware of the crime. It doesn't mean cops don't have a job, it clarifies the fact that the police can't be everywhere and know everything. Do you want everyone with a car stolen to be able to sue the state for it's cost? What about if you get jumped in a back alley and the cops can't find who did it, are you going to sue the police force for not being there?

ZenGum · 11-06-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

SNIP
I've said before that the key ingredient for fatalities seems to be cocaine use.
SNIP

That's very interesting. I presume it includes crack.
Should police therefore be extra reluctant to use a Taser on someone suspected of being on cocaine or crack, since it is more likely (than usual) to be fatal to them?
It would be hard to say that, because the freaking-out-crack-head is precisely the scenario tasers are best suited for: people who won't listen to reason, are dangerous to tackle hand-to-hand, but probably don't need to be shot.
Wolf, do you know exactly what the cause of death is? 'cause I'd like to see a guideline that after tasing a suspected cocaine user, medical treatment is immediately begun to address the effects of the tasing.

wolf · 11-06-2007, 09:57 AM

Everybody tasered that's coming to us has to go to an ER first, usually with admission to CCU to keep an eye on cardiac enzymes. Nobody who's gone through that had died in our care, cocaine use or not. The two crack users who did didn't get their levels monitored and treated for a day or two.

And yes, I should have specified crack cocaine use. I don't know if the regular old nose candy ups the ante or not.

Cause of death is heart failure. Autopsies usually don't get more specific than that. Real life is not CSI.

Rexmons · 11-06-2007, 10:17 AM

logically, one would have to assume tasering saves more lives than it takes. the alternative to tasering would be for police to physically subdue a suspect which can easily result in harm to both parties. i do not however believe it should be used in circumstances where there appears to be no physical threat to any parties no matter how annoying they are, such as:

and

oh yea and

10-30-2007, 12:11 AM	#20
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	i think people should be shot if they invade your home and attempt to steal your sense of security. Or stabbed, or bludgeoned with a bat, or tazered if it's all you have to hand..... Hell, one time I came home early and went up stairs to find jinx hiding behind the bedroom entry brandishing a slipper......good thing she recognized me, i could have sustained a very serious red patch of skin if she had struck me with it. hey...it had a hard rubber sole! __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-30-2007, 12:15 AM	#21
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I'd go for glen20 in the eyes, then a kick to the groin, followed by a knee to the chin and then I'd kick them in the guts while they're on the floor. I'd probably keep doing that till they started bleeding out of their arse. At least, that's what I tell myself in my mind. It might go somewhat differently, but at least I've got a plan. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-05-2007, 09:03 PM	#25
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	The police have no legal obligation to protect persons or property. Deshaney v. Winnebago County Dept of Social Services (U.S. Supreme Court) Pinder v. Johnson (4th Circuit Court of Appeals) .. a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen... -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181) (I tried to find a link to the full case citation for Warren, but haven't been able to locate one ... ditto for Balestreri v. Pacifica Police) ~~~~~ Back to Tasers ... I've seen a lot of people post tasering. I wasn't at work the night the guy got tasered in the lobby, though. In the continuum of things that police may do to attempt to control someone's behavior, tasers seem to be about the best. It's more effective than pepper spray, which carries a warning that it's not effective on psychiatric patients, and it's more human than a full strength kick in the nuts. I've said before that the key ingredient for fatalities seems to be cocaine use. Every cop that's carrying a taser has had it used on him/her, and if they were truly that lethal, there'd be cops dropping like flies all over the country. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-06-2007, 02:01 AM	#26
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Cops on the gold coast tasered a melbourne cup reveler this arvy. He was on the ground but making it almost impossible for him to be restrained and he kept mouthing off. They warned him he was about to be tazered if he didn't submit and he got worse, so they tazered him, then he mouthed off some more and taunted them. It was all filmed very clearly with dialogue included and presented on the news today. I'd say the drunken fool will be wishing he hadn't in the morning. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-06-2007, 05:25 AM	#27
queequeger Hypercharismatic Telepathical Knight Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The armpit of the Universe... Augusta, GA Posts: 365	Wolf, those are common cases referenced. It doesn't mean the police aren't obligated to help you if you're wronged. It means you can't hold the government liable if you get wronged when no cops are around or aware of the crime. It doesn't mean cops don't have a job, it clarifies the fact that the police can't be everywhere and know everything. Do you want everyone with a car stolen to be able to sue the state for it's cost? What about if you get jumped in a back alley and the cops can't find who did it, are you going to sue the police force for not being there? __________________ Hoocha, hoocha, hoocha... lobster.

11-06-2007, 09:57 AM	#29
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Everybody tasered that's coming to us has to go to an ER first, usually with admission to CCU to keep an eye on cardiac enzymes. Nobody who's gone through that had died in our care, cocaine use or not. The two crack users who did didn't get their levels monitored and treated for a day or two. And yes, I should have specified crack cocaine use. I don't know if the regular old nose candy ups the ante or not. Cause of death is heart failure. Autopsies usually don't get more specific than that. Real life is not CSI. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-06-2007, 10:17 AM	#30
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	logically, one would have to assume tasering saves more lives than it takes. the alternative to tasering would be for police to physically subdue a suspect which can easily result in harm to both parties. i do not however believe it should be used in circumstances where there appears to be no physical threat to any parties no matter how annoying they are, such as: and oh yea and __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

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