spanking or not?

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by vivant

I don't hit my pets

I cuff my cats when they are out of line, but only immediately in a cause and effect way (ie trying to jump up & get at my dinner). ey, it's what their mother would do.

That said, I find it equally disturbing that other forms of manipulation are employed as a means to get children to "obey," namely methods advocated by The Nanny et al. Bribes, rewards, et cetera are no better IMO. YMMV.

But surely any kind of reward in that sense is manipulation - a smile, a kiss, a "Well done!" or just, "Thank you." Children need positive reinforcement and if this means a star chart with a reward at the end for ongoing good behaviour it is a useful lesson - the world in general rewards sustained efforts in terms of grades, qualifications, promotion etc.

[vivant]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

But surely any kind of reward in that sense is manipulation - a smile, a kiss, a "Well done!" or just, "Thank you." Children need positive reinforcement and if this means a star chart with a reward at the end for ongoing good behaviour it is a useful lesson - the world in general rewards sustained efforts in terms of grades, qualifications, promotion etc.

I think there is a distinction between *recognition* and *reward*. And I agree that any of your examples could fall within either category, depending upon how it was employed. I think (for me) the main difference lies with intent; namely, is my smile/kiss or are my words contingent upon the child doing what I want the child to do? I'm trying to think of an example to illustrate my point better than my words are attempting to -

I don't think (all) kids need positive reinforcement; I do think all kids (as humans) crave recognition. Positive reinforcement would fall under the "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" umbrella as far as recognition goes. PR is one form of recognition, albeit a more manipulative one IMO. Manipulation isn't altogether a bad thing; we all do it to some letter, as parents if nothing else.

There is no one size fits all approach to interacting with children. Or employees. Or people in general. Different personalities and environments call for different strategies. You're correct that the world rewards sustained efforts; I think that is a good thing in some regards, and a frightening thing in others. I personally favor intrinsic motivation over extrinsic; I think my children are better off for it. I feel that I am. YMMV.

I have to get supper ready. I'll edit with an example, when one comes to mind.