Social Obligations & Immunization

[SamIam]

So, Vivant, talk smallpox to me. I really want to know your take on that. Also, what's your background, qualifications?

[vivant]

Originally Posted by SamIam

So, Vivant, talk smallpox to me. I really want to know your take on that. Also, what's your background, qualifications?

Hi, Sam. I'm hesitant to share a background for a few reasons: (a) I'm new here and leery of sharing personal information beyond what I've already shared, and (b) the nature of my post isn't to convince anybody to change his or her mind, simply to start a discussion - so it shouldn't matter if my background is in epidemiology or in waste management, I just want some dialogue, and (c) if I did say epidemiology would any one believe that now anyhow? LOL So in that vein, my immediate relevant qualifications are simply that I have an opinion on the data I've researched. I'm not putting myself out in cyberspace as an expert on anything other than my family.

Smallpox has been successfully treated homeopathically for centuries. On the off-chance I contract smallpox (most likely to happen from an act of terrorism) this will be my first course of action. I might still die. I might still die of smallpox even if I had been immunized for smallpox. It's a gamble either way, and we all have to weigh the odds unique to our respective situations.

My biggest concern about smallpox: Do we trust that the live-virus vaccine of decades past will hold up to the genetically reproduced version of the disease that we are most likely to encounter today?

Your thoughts? Again, I'm not out to change anyone's mind OR to have my mind changed. I simply enjoy exchanges of information and understanding where other people come from in reaching the decisions and beliefs that they do.

I'll spare you the Kumbaya. this time.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by vivant

Smallpox has been successfully treated homeopathically for centuries.

Might you have a source for such a claim? Any studies of areas that had massive outbreaks of smallpox that stopped the spread through the use of such "homeopathic" treatments? Basically there is no treatment of the disease, only prevention. If 3 out of 10 people die from the most serious forms of the disease I would say those are odds I would not want to bet against. Would you take the chance if your kids were going to get it and die?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox...ease-facts.asp

[vivant]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Might you have a source for such a claim? Any studies of areas that had massive outbreaks of smallpox that stopped the spread through the use of such "homeopathic" treatments? Basically there is no treatment of the disease, only prevention. If 3 out of 10 people die from the most serious forms of the disease I would say those are odds I would not want to bet against. Would you take the chance if your kids were going to get it and die?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox...ease-facts.asp

Thuja occidentalis. I may have spelled that incorrectly, it's been awhile. And I stand corrected; in reviewing the quoted box I see that I mistyped - it has been used successfully to treat EXPOSURE to smallpox and reactions from the live vaccine.

My ex-husband has been vaccinated for the same diseases. It's been a few years, though, but at the time the recommendation was NOT to immunize the entire population for smallpox. Is smallpox now a recommended immunization for civilians?

If 3 out of 10 people become infected with smallpox, the recommendation at the time of my ex-husband's last shot was to isolate the outbreak. Vaccinate those who came into contact with the infected; then vaccinate those who came into contact with those who came into contact with the infected. There was a 3-5 day window from the point of exposure, where the smallpox vaccine was believed effective. Maybe that has changed in the few years since we were married, I don't know. I don't lose sleep over smallpox. Or my ex-husband

As Aliantha points out, we take chances with our kids every day. Preventable chances, be they car rides or immunizations or exposure to disease. 3:10 seems a safe gamble to me, even if the stakes are higher I still feel comfortable with the numbers.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by vivant

Is smallpox now a recommended immunization for civilians?

If 3 out of 10 people become infected with smallpox, the recommendation at the time of my ex-husband's last shot was to isolate the outbreak. Vaccinate those who came into contact with the infected; then vaccinate those who came into contact with those who came into contact with the infected. There was a 3-5 day window from the point of exposure, where the smallpox vaccine was believed effective. Maybe that has changed in the few years since we were married, I don't know. I don't lose sleep over smallpox. Or my ex-husband

As Aliantha points out, we take chances with our kids every day. Preventable chances, be they car rides or immunizations or exposure to disease. 3:10 seems a safe gamble to me, even if the stakes are higher I still feel comfortable with the numbers.

No it has not changed. We take our chances with our kids every day but that does not give you the right to take chances with other people by risking that your kid may get a communicable disease and pass it on to others.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by vivant

Hi, Sam. I'm hesitant to share a background for a few reasons: (a) I'm new here and leery of sharing personal information beyond what I've already shared, and (b) the nature of my post isn't to convince anybody to change his or her mind, simply to start a discussion - so it shouldn't matter if my background is in epidemiology or in waste management, I just want some dialogue, and (c) if I did say epidemiology would any one believe that now anyhow? LOL So in that vein, my immediate relevant qualifications are simply that I have an opinion on the data I've researched. I'm not putting myself out in cyberspace as an expert on anything other than my family.

Fair enough. Thank you.

Originally Posted by vivant

Smallpox has been successfully treated homeopathically for centuries. On the off-chance I contract smallpox (most likely to happen from an act of terrorism) this will be my first course of action. I might still die. I might still die of smallpox even if I had been immunized for smallpox. It's a gamble either way, and we all have to weigh the odds unique to our respective situations.

I, too, question the homeopathic treatment of smallpx. I also question another post where you say that disease kills the weakest. How do you define "weakest"? Many, many healthy people have died from infectious disease. A prime example is the Native Americans who were here in North America at the time Eurpeans arrived, bearing all sorts of infectious pathogens that the Native Americans had never been exposed to. Some researchers estimate that as much as 80% of the original American Indian population was killed by infectious diseases from Europe (including small pox). Were Native Americans "less fit"? I don't think so.

No one gets innoculated against small pox anymore. The disease is considered to be eradicated BECAUSE of widespread innoculations, NOT homeopathic treatments. So, if you were exposed to a small pox outbreak at some unknown point in the future, chances are good that it would be the result of terrorists getting hold of one of the two sources of small pox left in the world: a culture maintained by the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta or another culture which is maintained somewhere in the former Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by vivant

My biggest concern about smallpox: Do we trust that the live-virus vaccine of decades past will hold up to the genetically reproduced version of the disease that we are most likely to encounter today?

Of course we don't. We are going to have to figure that any smallpox or other pox virus capable of infecting human beings is either a product of terrorist genetic tampering or a new form of pathogen which has naturally mutated to infect human beings with a high degree of virulence. Would I accept a vaccine against what amounts to a new disease if one could be found in time? Yes, I would.

Originally Posted by vivant

I'll spare you the Kumbaya. this time.

"Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya..."