Bush Expected to Veto 'Hate Crimes' Bill

[spudcon]

The simple flaw in hate crime laws is that it makes murder of one person more serious than murder of a different person. Why would a gay/black/policeman/muslim/white person be more valuable to society than anyone else. rkzenrage had it 100% correct. Manslaughter is manslaughter, no matter who the victim is. Anything different is not only unconstitutional, it's immoral.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by spudcon

The simple flaw in hate crime laws is that it makes murder of one person more serious than murder of a different person. Why would a gay/black/policeman/muslim/white person be more valuable to society than anyone else.

The argument behind hate crimes are not, or at least shouldn't be, that blacks or gays are more important to society than straight whites, just that killing someone just because of their skin color or sexuality is worst than killing someone for another reason.

Whether you agree with a hate crime being worst than regular manslaughter or not, when it comes to murder the justice system does judge by intent so it does follow the pattern. If I kill someone in self-defense, kill someone by accident, and kill someone in cold blood I'm going to get different time in jails for each if any jail time at all.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Well if the court is already taking intent into consideration, why more legislation? Why more complicated rules? Why more pressure on the DA to decide rather than the court?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Well if the court is already taking intent into consideration, why more legislation? Why more complicated rules? Why more pressure on the DA to decide rather than the court?

The DA doean't have to decide. The DA can charge both, and the jury decides.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The argument behind hate crimes are not, or at least shouldn't be, that blacks or gays are more important to society than straight whites, just that killing someone just because of their skin color or sexuality is worst than killing someone for another reason.

Whether you agree with a hate crime being worst than regular manslaughter or not, when it comes to murder the justice system does judge by intent so it does follow the pattern. If I kill someone in self-defense, kill someone by accident, and kill someone in cold blood I'm going to get different time in jails for each if any jail time at all.

Precisely, intent, circumstance and motive are not the same thing. Motive means nothing and when physical evidence is present, is rarely brought to bear in court at all by the prosecution. There is no reason to if their case is made by facts and evidence, it is only used in circumstantial cases. Waste of time otherwise and confuses the issue.
In fact, the defense will often try to use it as a red herring to confuse the jury.