Politics ad absurdam

[Urbane Guerrilla]

World War Two says I'm right, Bruce. You have no contrary evidence to adduce, let alone have anything near that weight.

What I am contrary to, is your insistence that you have the right to force your choice . . .

Then you had Goddamned well better be as hotly opposed to al-Quaeda's claim of that right also -- for their actions are in pursuit of exactly that, no? Perhaps you thought this goes without saying, but acknowledgement would clarify your position quite a bit. Lack of such acknowledgement, though, would make you look quite the fascist-symp jerk.

That'd be a pretty bad thing, if you aren't one.

You already know I regard isolationism as an impossibility, a nonstarter.

And at bottom, democracy versus all other choices is the core of the matter -- for the democracies live better than the anything-elses. The reason I can't understand this is because it would be incorrect so to understand the matter. Why you cannot see this, I do not know, and doubt you could explain, you being more than a little short on explanations for your life's philosophy. That's the record so far.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Then you had Goddamned well better be as hotly opposed to al-Quaeda's claim of that right also -- for their actions are in pursuit of exactly that, no?

The part you keep missing is that before your people turned this into a war, it was a policing issue. Al Queda was/is pretty small potatoes, but giving fundamentalist Islam something to rally around is a big deal and that is what you fuckers have done. Instead of letting the fundies dry up and blow away you people gave them comfort. You attack our Constitution, destroy our position in the world, give aid to the enemies of humanity, and expect our support? That is madness.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Griff

The part you keep missing is that before your people turned this into a war, it was a policing issue. Al Queda was/is pretty small potatoes, but giving fundamentalist Islam something to rally around is a big deal and that is what you fuckers have done. Instead of letting the fundies dry up and blow away you people gave them comfort. You attack our Constitution, destroy our position in the world, give aid to the enemies of humanity, and expect our support? That is madness.

Rally around? They were rallied and rallying steadily already. When you've got something as well-funded and enthusiastic as al-Qaeda, I put it to you a distinction between policing and warfare becomes pretty blurry. What will dry up the fundies to blow them away will be when the rest of Islam is actively turned against them, and we are seeing this now -- the fundies have only the disconnectedness of the Gap to offer, whereas the rest of the Islamic world would rather not get disconnected from the developed and developing world. This is particularly true of the oil states, and truest of the small ones like Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and the Emirates. There is a pull to integration with the globalized economy here that will draw the bulk of Islam away from these seekers after their own notion of the neo-Caliphate. But to make this successful will take effort on our part also.

I look on this present conflict as smoking out the troublemakers to where they can be destroyed -- or given some pressing reasons to convert from their current unsatisfactory state: stop being shitheads or lose those shit heads. The one handsomely conserves lives, fortunes, and resources; the second is an acceptable alternative that no democratic partisan should shrink from, on the grounds that undemocracies are far more likely to behave inhumanly than democracies. Democracies get more people rich, too. There's basically nothing not to like, yet there are people right here who think they shouldn't like it, and these yell at me. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, you guys?

Attack our Constitution? No, Griff, that was the Clinton Administration, which did it on instinct. This is not one of the Bush Administration's failings, in truth. Their instinct goes quite the other way, and is quite in keeping with the seldom-realized Republican ideal of minimization of the Federal government -- they are far better on gun rights than Clinton's bunch ever were, and that is more important than most posters here realize: upon the citizens' gun rights hangs all the force of the Constitution and the liberalized structure of the Republic. Even noted sociopath Mao Tse-Tung indirectly grasped this when he noted "political power grows out of the muzzle of a gun."

Destroy our position in the world? This is what the Left would like you to believe is true. They certainly repeat it often enough in hopes of hypnotizing everyone -- and frankly, if you want democracy to win out, be resolute in ignoring this idea. Tell its purveyors to go pound sand into all available orifices and sundry ratholes, for this is an attempt at undermining our determination, and I for one won't put up with it. I can't imagine why anyone who likes democracy would, yet there are sightless democrats who do.

The enemies of humanity? Well, there are the Islamofascists and other Gappers. The Republicans aren't in that category at all, for they are acting in opposition to these enemies of humanity -- which isn't what the Democrats are doing by a long chalk, though they do show some signs that they've just found their glasses and can see beyond their donkey noses for the first time in six years. But really, the only way the Dems can redeem their longstanding fault is to devise a better strategy to win the War and make the Islamofascists lose the War than the Republicans can. What do you think the likelihood of that is? They have to date shown zero inclination this way, have they not?

Tell me, Griff: do you think the bad guys would like to cut your head off, either because of something specific or on general principles?

Those guys might just qualify as your enemy. They'd certainly be mine.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And my point, for the umpteenth-plus-first time is that fascism and other autocracies do not come about through choices, but through deception and imposition.

Your people did a nice job on this btw.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Tell me, Griff: do you think the bad guys would like to cut your head off, either because of something specific or on general principles?

Those guys might just qualify as your enemy. They'd certainly be mine.

Funny how I don't fear them, living in America as I do. I'm going to let you fail to extrapolate a righteous foreign policy from that.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

World War Two says I'm right, Bruce. You have no contrary evidence to adduce, let alone have anything near that weight.

Ah yes, the Big One, WW II. That's when we geared up and kicked the ass of people trying to do, exactly what you want to do.

Then you had Goddamned well better be as hotly opposed to al-Quaeda's claim of that right also -- for their actions are in pursuit of exactly that, no?

For the upteenth time, NOBODY is allowed to impose their choice of government on another sovereign nation. BUT, Griff explained why al Q was not an issue, that required extending any effort outside of Afghanistan.

And at bottom, democracy versus all other choices is the core of the matter -- for the democracies live better than the anything-elses. The reason I can't understand this is because it would be incorrect so to understand the matter. Why you cannot see this, I do not know, and doubt you could explain, you being more than a little short on explanations for your life's philosophy. That's the record so far.

Yes, I think democracy is better choice. But that's my choice and others should have their choice.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

And my point, for the umpteenth-plus-first time is that fascism and other autocracies do not come about through choices, but through deception and imposition. This is why your efforts to argue otherwise fall so flat.

Humans in general would run their own affairs. Some humans are of a mind to rule. Too much of the latter makes for fascism and other objectionableisms, and I've had enough of all of them. I've had enough of them since I was about nine years old -- and absolutely no one has nor has devised any convincing argument that I'm wrong about this. Not now, not in times past, and very likely not in the future. Sometimes you latch on to the right idea early in life.

Active opposition to nondemocracy will help to shrink the Gap. This is necessary. Some unwise people object to my endorsing this.