They Don't Think Like Us

[xoxoxoBruce]

Agreed, it runs the gamut from very poor to very rich.

No, not a Jew.

[DanaC]

It doesn't just run the gamut from poor to rich...it is also subject to great cultural variance. The culture pof Pakistan is not the same as the culture of Indonesia, despite the fact both are Moslem cultures. The culture of African moslems is different to the culture of arabic moslems. The culture of western moslems is different to their cultures of origin.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Good point. Influenced, but not defined, by their religion. But that doesn't change the authors position, "they don't think like us"?

[Happy Monkey]

Well, the article is specifically about Arabs, not Muslims in general.

[DanaC]

I don't think it's completely off base to suggest that a culture with very different assumptions and cultural norms might think differently to another ('theirs' being different from 'ours') But it is off-base to suggest that there is no commanality at all. There are areas of life where our cultures have commonlity and areas where they don't.

[xoxoxoBruce]

There is a commonality with all humans but is it enough to invalidate his point #12?

Our civilization is destroying theirs. We cannot share a world in peace. They understand this; we have yet to learn it.

Another culturally-imposed blindness we have is the notion that everybody can get along with enough good will. There is absolutely no evidence to support this and a great deal to oppose it. Can the subjugation of women coexist with Western Civilization with Western media ubiquitous throughout the world? Can a pluralistic and tolerant society be governed by Islamic law? Can a modern economy exist where interest is forbidden and many forms of business risk-taking are considered gambling, and thus forbidden? Can a society that educates its young men by a process of rote recitation produce critically thinking, technically educated men to build and operate a modern economy? Can you even teach elementary concepts of maintenance to a people who believe that anything that happens is inshalla (As God wills it)? To compete, or even just survive in the world they must become more like us and less like themselves - and they know this.

They look like pretty big differences to coexist without remaining separated.

[DanaC]

Not all Islamic culture subjugates women. Not all Islamic culture's seek to be governed by Islamic (sharia) law. A theocracy is entirely inconsistent with what we consider western values, but not all Moslems favour theocracy any more than all Cristians deem the Pope infallible.

In terms of the financial and borrowing sector: there are many banks and institutions in my country who offer so-called 'halal' loans, which do not contradict the Islamic teachings on usury.

Their young men are only taught by rote in religious education. If a young man does a degree at an Iranian univeristy on Persian literature and history, they don't learn it by rote., they study in the same way we do.

The concept of "Gos wills it" it is misleading: it's a saying dropped into speech at regular points. A little like a Christian saying Godwilling, or even an atheist like myself saying "God knows" or "My God".

I do not belieive 'our civilisation' is destroying their world: I believe that currently our political masters are endangering their world. Yes, they realise it, and yes, we should realise it. But the answer isn't to become even more aggressive, it's to pull back and realise the damage we are doing.

[piercehawkeye45]

When did Middle Eastern countries really start with Islamic Law? I know Iran did in 1979 and I'm pretty sure a lot of other countries had more secular governments in 60's and 70's before the whole Cold War thing tore them apart in favor of the religious extremists.

Isn't everyone armed in the Muggle-East?
If they wanted things to change would they not just kick their government's ass?

[DanaC]

Isn't everyone armed in the Muggle-East?

Many are armed, but not everyone. Most arms are small arms not rocket launchers. Ever tried kicking a government's (army, police, tanks, teargas, guns) ass with handguns?

S-how most governments are overthrown. Happens all the time.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I wonder how Gandhi would have fared against Iran, instead of Britain?

[DanaC]

That'd probably depend on whether or not Gandhi had been previously educated in the best Iranian universities and moved within the circles of the powerful and elite of Iran.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I wonder how Gandhi would have fared against Iran, instead of Britain?

They would have killed him and all of his followers.

[DanaC]

I'd be more interested in knowing how Britain might have dealt with Gandhi if he'd been agitating 50-100 years earlier. By the time Gandhi was agitating, the world had changed and the Empire was fragmenting.