I know everyone's tired of Guantanamo bay...

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Once again George is being accused of something that I don't think he's doing. And when proof is demanded of instances these "denials of rights" or examples of persons who have been raped of their rights as American citizens, there is sudden and very complete silence.

No one's ever given foreign POWs any nation's legal rights. It's not a matter of law, merely one of keeping the enemies caged until hostilities are over or the end of their natural lives whichever comes first.

Bruce has not suffered an abridgement of his freedom of association, speech, or conscience; he can still buy any firearm the state of Pennsylvania allows (though the city of Philadelphia may shaft him); troops have not been quartered in his residence; no one has insisted on going through his sock drawer or any other drawers on a whim; he has not been obliged to incriminate himself in any criminal proceeding; he's not been tried in secret nor unduly slowly, nor have any verdicts reached against him in trial been illegally reviewed -- indeed he hasn't had punishment of any description from the law usual or otherwise, nor have his Constitutional rights been construed to be the limit of his human rights. Et cetera.

What the Administration is doing is nothing other than trying to aggregate the powers to fight a war, for the purpose of winning that war. I want us to win it, but there are some posters around here I couldn't say that of. I am quite certain that one doesn't. No it isn't you, Bruce.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

no one has insisted on going through his sock drawer or any other drawers on a whim; he has not been obliged to incriminate himself in any criminal proceeding; he's not been tried in secret

Of course, Bush has been fighting tooth and nail for the right to wiretap without a warrant, and declare people "illegal enemy combatants" and thereby revoke the right to a trial, and your apologia is that Bruce wasn't so declared, and doesn't know of any taps? Or maybe your apologia is that Bush was frustrated in his attempts by the courts? I'm not so sanguine that the courts actually prevented infringements by emphasizing their illegality, but even if they did, it's bad enough that Bush was fighting to get those powers. If he failed, that's a strength of the system, not an excuse for his activities.