Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal

[xoxoxoBruce]

Very simple... if you're concerned with what's on the land across the street, buy it.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by glatt

Ah, the warning label. So you're a fan of warning labels on ladders and hot coffee?

Nope, but if someone's gonna raise a shit fit when I build my crazy house out of linkin logs, I'll throw a sign up, why not?

Would you rather wade through a sea of warning labels or not be able to do dangerous things?

[DanaC]

affordable housing doesn't have to be like that though. Also, I don't know what it's like over there but in some areas of the Uk, what tends to happen is large scale housing developments, including affordable housing are built to the point of saturation in the urban areas, because a) it's easier to justify planning permission if it is in land already designated as Housing Land in the Local Development Plan and b) the well off tend not to live in these areas in such great numbers and it tends mainly to be the well off who end up sitting on planning panels.

So, you end up with what little open space is left in a built up area getting overbuilt.

[Terminator_484]

The horrific corruption of the American government and the bureaucratic boneheads that run things in Washington are why I am skipping the country.

That, and the way the oil-dollar is going to die, just makes it all that much more important that everyone abandon the sinking ship known as "America".

[Griff]

Originally Posted by DanaC

affordable housing doesn't have to be like that though.

No it doesn't, but from what I've seen locally it is one way to transition from being a renter to an owner aka- the American Dream. You then upgrade the building or sell the place for enough money to put a sizable down payment on a prefab or other reasonably priced home. The size restriction says that it is illegal to go under 900 sqft which is imposing middle-class standards and costs on folks who are not there yet. It is one of many attacks on the owner-builder, trojan-horsed in zoning regulations. Some people (like me apparently thank God for Pete) do not fit in the economy as it presently exists, but can solve their food, clothing, and shelter issues in ways that maintain their self-respect.

Also, I don't know what it's like over there but in some areas of the Uk, what tends to happen is large scale housing developments, including affordable housing are built to the point of saturation in the urban areas, because a) it's easier to justify planning permission if it is in land already designated as Housing Land in the Local Development Plan and b) the well off tend not to live in these areas in such great numbers and it tends mainly to be the well off who end up sitting on planning panels.

The original article and all my assumtions are based on a rural environment. The conflict here is people with urban middle-class sensibilities moving to the country and then legislating away the things they don't like about their neighbors. If they wish to buy up properties and then put deed restrictions in place that is fine, but zoning away their neighbors way-of-life is not.

As you may have guessed, this is a hot-button issue for me. I've gone round and round with tw on this because he doesn't believe people should be able to build the houses they need rather than the supposedly safe (and often shoddily built) assembly line house. If I lived in a township with heavy zoning enforcement, I wouldn't have been able to build on my schedule and eliminate the need for a morgage.

I hope I haven't been too testy on this but I lived in a 12'x12' shed with two kids and a wife, while building my house. Those were the best of times. If I had any zoning enforcement at all it wouldn't have worked. That is why my township supervisors own my vote despite some short-comings. They mind their own business.

Check out our lifestyle here. This is what zoning prevents.

[queequeger]

That's a cool ass house, man. I really like your kitchen setup (with the blue cupboards).

Also cute goat.

Originally Posted by Griff

The conflict here is people with urban middle-class sensibilities moving to the country and then legislating away the things they don't like about their neighbors. If they wish to buy up properties and then put deed restrictions in place that is fine, but zoning away their neighbors way-of-life is not.

Absolutely. Not only on the small scale, but on the large scale, it further separates the rich from the poor, the black from the white, and pretty much kills any kind of interesting diversity in a neighborhood. Everyone has to have white curtains or blinds? I think I'd rather jump off a cliff.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by queequeger

That's a cool ass house, man. I really like your kitchen setup (with the blue cupboards).

Thankyou sir! It is actually further along than the pictures show.

Also cute goat.

Keep your hands to yourself.

Absolutely. Not only on the small scale, but on the large scale, it further separates the rich from the poor, the black from the white, and pretty much kills any kind of interesting diversity in a neighborhood. Everyone has to have white curtains or blinds? I think I'd rather jump off a cliff.

On the large scale you see it with people opening chain restaurants instead of their own places. An organization like Subway will help the franchisee clear the regulatory hurdles. Somebody that actually makes a nice cheesesteak but has no stomach for bureacracy won't even try.

[DanaC]

The original article and all my assumtions are based on a rural environment. The conflict here is people with urban middle-class sensibilities moving to the country and then legislating away the things they don't like about their neighbors. If they wish to buy up properties and then put deed restrictions in place that is fine, but zoning away their neighbors way-of-life is not.

As you may have guessed, this is a hot-button issue for me. I've gone round and round with tw on this because he doesn't believe people should be able to build the houses they need rather than the supposedly safe (and often shoddily built) assembly line house. If I lived in a township with heavy zoning enforcement, I wouldn't have been able to build on my schedule and eliminate the need for a morgage.

I understand *nods*. I think 'country' means different things to you guys than it does over here. We have this thing called 'Green Zone" which is necessary in planning regs because we've lost much (most?) of our wild lands. We have an entirely different relationship with space than yours I think *grins* just a whole other scale.

[Griff]

We'll get you in one of those American as a Second Language classes.

Places where you can't paint your house the color you want or your mailbox has to be be the same as everyone else, the curtains, the garage... those people are sick!

[DanaC]

I can't say it appeals much to me. I lived in an apartment block some years ago and there was a residents committee that voted on shit like that. All the doors had to be exactly the same shade of green:P In fairness to them the block would have looked shit with multi coloured and styled doors and windows because of the architectural style...but it doesn't suit me.

My brother-in-law wanted a fence in HIS yard, he had to ask permission!
I thought he OWNED it?
Fuck them.

[DanaC]

Did the fence have an effect on any neighbouring property?

Over here if you build a fence above 6 Foot high, or you wish to build anything that will have an effect on neighbouring properties you need planning permission. If you seek planning permission, notices are then posted around the area so that any neighbours who feel they have a reasonable case for objecting can do so.

[monster]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Did the fence have an effect on any neighbouring property?

Over here if you build a fence above 6 Foot high, or you wish to build anything that will have an effect on neighbouring properties you need planning permission. If you seek planning permission, notices are then posted around the area so that any neighbours who feel they have a reasonable case for objecting can do so.

On new estates (neighborhoods), gardens (yards) here are generally one large continuum of lawn, with no boundary markers between properties. No hedges no fences etc not even a flower bed. Most such estates have many rules about what you can and can't do to the outside of the property, to keep a sense of uniformity about the place. They are referred to as "cookie cutter neighborhood" I live in one. We killed our residents association who enforced the rules and they came back as zombies, enforcing long-dead style rules! I need out! Oh, did I digress?

Anyway, it's pretty standard that fences, sheds, satelite dishes, anything over 10' including flagpoles require permission from the association. Unless you have a dog in which case you are required to have a fence and people put these nasty metal chainlink things in..... oops off I went again...

Some of the very expensive cookie cutter neighborhoods, filled with what are known as McMansions go even further, with regulations dictating what colours (colors) you can paint your house. Really.

And yet you still hear comments about this being "the land of the free" and how people wouldn't like to live in a socialist dictatorship country like Europe.


To avoid these neighborhoods, you generally have to choose to live in a smaller, older property with maintenance issues. When we bought here, we were told the association was disbanded and could not be revived and no-one would ever do that anyway.... we were told wrong......

Originally Posted by DanaC

Did the fence have an effect on any neighbouring property?

Over here if you build a fence above 6 Foot high, or you wish to build anything that will have an effect on neighbouring properties you need planning permission. If you seek planning permission, notices are then posted around the area so that any neighbours who feel they have a reasonable case for objecting can do so.

No, because it was on his property only.
Standard privacy fence.