Ending God's Tax Exempt Status

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Nasty? More people are immigrating into the US than anywhere else in the world and we're nasty?

So you don't have any problem with giving two people different rights based on where they were born? You don't think there's something twisted about that? People come here because we're obscenely rich, and they want to be rich, too. I don't think that means we are morally superior at all. That's where my stance on the whole issue is coming from, and why I'd still be for inclusive immigration laws even if it were 'bad for the economy,' because frankly it reeks of royalty to claim a right to citizenship based solely on birth.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Why? What difference does it make to you or me? I holler, don't brood.

Well it does make a difference to you if you're actually pissed, right? I'm not saying I've spent the last two days pacing and worrying about a person I just met (not even in 'real life') being angry, but I would be happier if you weren't pissed off. Also, if you didn't call me Polyanna. My name is already a slightly misspelled girls name as it is.

[9th Engineer]

Most Americans are not extremely rich, they make enough to live comfortably but not in the lap of luxury. It's our stability and open class system (ability to climb the social and economic ladders) that draws people here I think. Isn't the most common thing to hear from illegal aliens "I wanted to make a better life for myself and my family"? Not, "I want in on all those piles of cash!".
Birth does a hell of alot to determine who we are, we are born into our culture. Some people are born to very wealthy parents and often enjoy lives of greater privilege then the rest of us. How far are you willing to go to put an end to that? And are you willing to damage and destroy the efforts of millions of people here who have done absolutely nothing wrong in order to enforce your own view of global equality? I'm willing to help people, but I also retain the right to choose how I do it, and what I'm willing to sacrifice in the process. If you want to override the will of the citizenry in order to impose your own morality, I suggest you find a different country to target. That's not the way things work here.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Most Americans are not extremely rich, they make enough to live comfortably but not in the lap of luxury.

Rich is relative my friend. Tell your average Iraqi, Sudani, Chadian, Pakistani, Yugoslavian that I am not rich. By American standards I'm middle class at best. I make multitudes more than the average middle class person in those countries. I have a television, an X-Box, a car, a truck, a motorcycle, I can go out a few times a month for dinner and drinks, My clothes are all new (relatively!:p). I never ever ever have to worry about what I'm going to eat, and all but the tiniest fraction of Americans are in my boat.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Some people are born to very wealthy parents and often enjoy lives of greater privilege then the rest of us. How far are you willing to go to put an end to that?

I know not everyone is interested in it, not everyone finds as big an issue with this kind of right by birth. Me? I'm willing to go pretty far. As I've already stated I'd pay upwards of 50-60 percent of my income in taxes if everyone got healthcare, free education... everything available in a capitalist socialism setting. I can not abide that some people who work HARDER than me get less, just because I had parents who could pay my first year of classes and buy books later. I've never truly been on my own before, I've always had parents who I could fall back on if times get hard. If your parents live around the poverty level, what the hell are they going to do?? Nothing, you run out of money, drop out of college, and get a job at Denny's.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

If you want to override the will of the citizenry in order to impose your own morality, I suggest you find a different country to target. That's not the way things work here.

What the bloody hell are you talking about!? I'm talking about what I think is the correct way to go about things. I never said I was going to try some military coup so I can enforce my hippie-commie-pinko views on the citizens of the US, or even that someone should. If I believed that, I'd most certainly be in a different line of work. I'm explaining WHY it is that I would vote for an immigration system like this, and WHY it is that we SHOULD. If everyone who posted their views on this or any forum stood accused of 'trying to impose their own morality'... well, hell. I guess we'd all be a bunch of enemies to the state.

[piercehawkeye45]

Social mobility is actually lower in the US than in other 1st world countries because their education is much better for the lower class than ours. High School in general is shitty in the US. (See teacher thread)

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by queequeger

I never ever ever have to worry about what I'm going to eat, and all but the tiniest fraction of Americans are in my boat.

Hmm, I wonder why that is?

Originally Posted by queequeger

As I've already stated I'd pay upwards of 50-60 percent of my income in taxes if everyone got healthcare, free education... everything available in a capitalist socialism setting.

Good for you - nobody is stopping you from donating or giving all you want to whatever charity you want.

Originally Posted by queequeger

I've never truly been on my own before, I've always had parents who I could fall back on if times get hard.

Ahhh, very telling indeed.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by queequeger

I never ever ever have to worry about what I'm going to eat, and all but the tiniest fraction of Americans are in my boat.

You're gonna need a bigger boat...

You're going to need a bigger boat, right? How are we going to handle this?

Being selective about who we allow to be Americans is our right and fair, especially since our immigration laws are more liberal and easy than most nations even the ones most immigrants are coming from.
Just because more people want to come here than most nations does NOT mean that we should let more in.
That is a silly notion.

"We have a better life than they do".
That does not mean we have an obligation to give it to them. Not in the slightest.

Want to be an American... come here legally and you will be.
It IS that simple.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Being selective about who we allow to be Americans is our right and fair, especially since our immigration laws are more liberal and easy than most nations even the ones most immigrants are coming from.

So, it's fair that we keep our immigrations laws difficult, because other countries have more difficult immigration laws? Following that, um, logic, it would also be fair if we made our immigration laws easier, because there are countries with easier immigration laws than ours.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Just because more people want to come here than most nations does NOT mean that we should let more in.
That is a silly notion.

WHY is it a silly notion?

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Want to be an American... come here legally and you will be.
It IS that simple.

You're completely ignoring the fact that it is too often NOT a simple thing to come here legally in the first place.

Again and again, our immigration laws are easier than MOST nations. They are not that hard.
It is harder to become a citizen of most nations including most of the nations people are coming from than the US.
I think our laws are fair.
It is a silly notion because it is not logical.
What people want has nothing to do with what it right for all and what is right for what we need to consider first, what is best for our nation.
No immigration process is simple, but ours is easier than most and not unfair.
Letting everyone who wants to come here is not an option.

[Ibby]

Rob favors being a dick to other people, because we have no obligation to let them in, whereas some of us, me included, favor being nice to people by letting them in... within reason, obviously.


well, okay, thats an oversimplification, but thats the core of the matter.
And sorry I called you a dick, buddy, but you really are one, 'specially lately.

[xoxoxoBruce]

@queequeger. Do your parents share your views, either partially or completely?

whereas some of us, me included, favor being nice to people by letting them in... within reason, obviously.

Cite where I stated that we should not let people in within reason.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Again and again, our immigration laws are easier than MOST nations. They are not that hard.
It is harder to become a citizen of most nations including most of the nations people are coming from than the US.
I think our laws are fair.
It is a silly notion because it is not logical.
What people want has nothing to do with what it right for all and what is right for what we need to consider first, what is best for our nation.
No immigration process is simple, but ours is easier than most and not unfair.
Letting everyone who wants to come here is not an option.

If you think waiting 10 years = not that hard, you're obviously not dealing with reality.

Why should other countries' immigration laws have any real bearing on how we make our immigration laws. And how can our laws be fair, when they don't work.

You can label the situation 'silly' or 'not logical,' but it still doesn't give an explanation. Explain WHY it's not logical.

Our nation is made up of PEOPLE, people with different wants and needs. What is best for our nation can be as varied as those different wants and needs.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Cite where I stated that we should not let people in within reason.

The difference is, you favor exclusion, while I favor inclusion. You favor keeping people out, except for the ones we let in. I favor letting people in, except for the ones we keep out.

I never implied that.