Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[DanaC]

Not all people drown in a flood, but they can be consumed and surrounded by water.

Consumed? Surrounded? How the fuck do 10 million people consume and surround 300 million?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Consumed? Surrounded? How the fuck do 10 million people consume and surround 300 million?

Depends on where you live. Those 10 million, more like 30 million by some estimates, are often concentrated in different areas. They do surround and they consume our tax dollars.

[DanaC]

They also pay tax dollars.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by DanaC

They also pay tax dollars.

The only time they pay taxes is when they consume. I would love to be able to do that, pay only when I make a purchase. That would save me about $55,000 dollars a year in income tax.

[DanaC]

From the New York Times:

TOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/bu...1dc383&ei=5090


I understand from a fairly wide range of sources, that Mr Martinez is not exactly an atypical case.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by yesman065

There is a stor going on about two border agents who shot an illegal in the ass while he was bringing 750lbs of narcotics over. They were sentenced to 12 years. Wait, isn't that what they are supposed to be doing??? Oh and the "illegal" who was given immunity to testify agianst them was recently caught transporting more drugs into the U.S.

Problem is, they shot him as he was running away, didn't know his legal status at the time, and didn't even know he was transporting drugs. Then, the agents didn't report the incident and tried to cover it up by collecting the shell casings. Border agents aren't supposed to do stuff like that.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Problem is, they shot him as he was running away, didn't know his legal status at the time, and didn't even know he was transporting drugs. Then, the agents didn't report the incident and tried to cover it up by collecting the shell casings. Border agents aren't supposed to do stuff like that.

My understanding was that they were very familiar with this particular individual AND he was shot in the U.S.while commiting a crime. It doesn't matter what his legal status was. Perhaps not wverything was dne right, but the reality is what it is. They got 12 years and this POS goes free to do it again - The real incriminating evidence was the illegals testimony and now that he has gotten caught transporting drugs again, how reliable was/is that?

[TheMercenary]

The border agents got the shaft. They deserved nothing more than a slap on the wrist, suspension with or without pay, or dismissal. 12 years in prison is bull shit. This case was in the news last week. The perp that got off was is suspected in numerous other drug cases since the border agents were sent to prison. He supposedly used his immunity in the first case to cross back and forth over the border unchecked by agents to continue to smuggle drugs. They should have capped his ass the first time.

[TheMercenary]

A copy of the news relating to the July 18th hearing by Congress on the matter:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20070718a.html

As Cybercast News Service reported earlier, after the drug dealer was brought to the U.S. for medical treatment for the bullet wound, U.S. authorities gave him a "humanitarian pass" to cross the border freely. It was during this time, according to Drug Enforcement Administration documents, that Aldrete-Davila was allegedly involved in further drug-smuggling.

"Was it wise to give a humanitarian pass to a known drug dealer?" Cornyn of Texas asked.

Sutton responded: "You're assuming he ran another load of dope."

Feinstein interjected, raising her voice slightly. "His question was, 'Do you think it was wise to give a humanitarian pass to a known drug dealer?'"

Sutton wavered, "If he ran another load of dope, it was a mistake [to give him the pass]. If he did not run another load of dope, it wasn't."

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by yesman065

My understanding was that they were very familiar with this particular individual AND he was shot in the U.S.while commiting a crime. It doesn't matter what his legal status was. Perhaps not wverything was dne right, but the reality is what it is. They got 12 years and this POS goes free to do it again - The real incriminating evidence was the illegals testimony and now that he has gotten caught transporting drugs again, how reliable was/is that?

According to the U.S. Attorney's office in Texas, he was not committing a crime when he was shot. Even if they didn't have the guy's testimony, they still have enough evidence (like ballistics) that the agents screwed up, big time.

[TheMercenary]

July 18, 2007
Bipartisan call for commuting border agent sentences
Especially in these partisan times, it is encouraging to see bipartisanship on any issue. And, as detailed in this Lou Dobbs commentary, the extreme sentences for former border agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean has brought leading Senators from both sides of the aisle together:

There was an unusual spectacle in the nation's capital Tuesday, downright rare, in fact: U.S. Senators seeking truth, and justice, and taking action. And they deserve great credit and thanks. The Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, led by Dianne Feinstein, focused on the reasons for the prosecution of two Border Patrol agents now serving long sentences in federal prison. Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean were given terms of 11 and 12 years respectively on their convictions for shooting an illegal alien drug smuggler. Senator Feinstein, and Senators Jeff Sessions, John Cornyn, Jon Kyl and Tom Coburn demanded answers of U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, who chose to prosecute Compean and Ramos and give that illegal alien drug smuggler blanket immunity to testify against the men....

Senator Feinstein and Senator Cornyn announced Tuesday night on our broadcast that they have decided to request that President Bush commute the sentences of Ramos and Compean.

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

According to the U.S. Attorney's office in Texas, he was not committing a crime when he was shot. Even if they didn't have the guy's testimony, they still have enough evidence (like ballistics) that the agents screwed up, big time.

Uh, no not really - do your research before saying something like that. Even the prosecuter in an interview on 1210am last friday said his testimony was the lynch pin to the case - without it they wouldn't have even been prosecuted.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Uh, no not really - do your research before saying something like that. Even the prosecuter in an interview on 1210am last friday said his testimony was the lynch pin to the case - without it they wouldn't have even been prosecuted.

Okay...where would I find that? I don't see that particular interview anywhere.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I've seen several government reps make that statement for justification in granting amnesty.

They were following him because they knew he had a truckload of dope. He knew they knew, so he stopped the truck and ran. One agent took off after him, while the other secured the truck and took off a minute or so later. The second agent crests the hill to see his partner prostrate and the perp fleeing. He fired once not thinking he hit anything.
Before they left the scene there were other agents including two supervisors there. Yes, he picked up the cartridge. They all Knew what happened and agreed to forget about it, to avoid a mountain of paper work, thinking the agent had missed.
The perp went home and bitched to the family who called a cousin that is an agent in another state. The cousin called homeland security and bitched. Homeland security railroaded the two agents for minor infractions.
The perp in a professional drug smuggler, not some poor peasant trying to get to the US to work for money, to care for his aged mother and 17 starving children.

Personally, I think Homeland Security has a standing deal with the Mexican mafia, to not shoot at them in exchange for a peaceful border that won't make waves for Cheney's White house. Too bad they didn't kill the fucker.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Too bad they didn't kill the fucker.

Damm tootin'. A head shot would have put all these questions to rest.