If the indians had been republican

[xoxoxoBruce]

Are there still a lot of pureblood Indians in Mexico? More than here in the states?
As you know, Sycamore claims Indian blood, but methinks it was probably a french Canadian Apache dancer.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

As you know, Sycamore claims Indian blood, but methinks it was probably a french Canadian Apache dancer.

Well, I do have good rhythm.

My great grandfather was born in northern Oklahoma, in what was known as the Cherokee Outlet in 1902. I have not been able to find his family's name on the Dawes Rolls, so none of my family can be official citizens of the Cherokee Nation at this point.

One of these days, I'd like to seriously research his family line--and the rest of my mother's family line for that matter. I know very little about it, and the rest of my family is just as clueless.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Are there still a lot of pureblood Indians in Mexico? More than here in the states?

Oh yes.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

If we do nothing, the country will change is ways I don't like.

It's going to change anyway. It's ALWAYS changing.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Excellent point! That's why anyone that truly loves this country and what it stood for, must be constantly vigilant for those that don't.

Those that don't love this country?? That's why so many people have always wanted to come here, in any way that they can--they love what this country really stands for.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Those that don't love this country?? That's why so many people have always wanted to come here, in any way that they can--they love what this country really stands for.

No, they love the fact that they can come here and make money to send home to encourage others to come and do the same. I bet few illegals understand anything more about what this country stands for other than a monetary motivation and an attempt to change one form of abject poverty to a lessor form of poverty.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I bet few illegals understand anything more about what this country stands for other than a monetary motivation and an attempt to change one form of abject poverty to a lessor form of poverty.

You have no idea what you're talking about. But bigots never do, of course.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

You have no idea what you're talking about. But bigots never do, of course.

Oh really. Bigot? Give me a break. Bleeding heart liberals like you will never understand the motivations of illegals.

[bluecuracao]

Nope, you don't get any breaks, especially since you're not willing to give them. I understand very well the motivations of the majority of immigrants to the U.S., illegal or legal. You, on the other hand, will never understand, as long as you keep thinking of certain people as prey.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Nope, you don't get any breaks, especially since you're not willing to give them. I understand very well the motivations of the majority of immigrants to the U.S., illegal or legal. You, on the other hand, will never understand, as long as you keep thinking of certain people as prey.

The prey are the US tax payers who are taking it in the ass to support illegals. You make them out to be some kind of victims. I don't buy it. If I had my way I would round them up and dump them all in Iraq. But since I can't we need to figure out how to deal with the problem now. Not pat it on the head. Continuing to feed them, give them free medical care when Americans can't even get decent free medical care is not the answer.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

It's going to change anyway. It's ALWAYS changing.

Yes it is, but these people and Bush, are not changing it for the better.

Those that don't love this country?? That's why so many people have always wanted to come here, in any way that they can--they love what this country really stands for.

They love the money they can make. They love the fact they can move around relatively unimpeded. They love the fact that they can flaunt the law with relative impunity. They love getting free medical care at the expense of others.
But they don't love this country, they are Mexicans with no desire to be Americans. Their allegiance is to a foreign country, which is why they fly a foreign flag.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They love the money they can make. They love the fact they can move around relatively unimpeded. They love the fact that they can flaunt the law with relative impunity. They love getting free medical care at the expense of others.
But they don't love this country, they are Mexicans with no desire to be Americans. Their allegiance is to a foreign country, which is why they fly a foreign flag.

Don't you love making money? Don't you love moving around relatively unimpeded? That's part of the American Dream.

As far as 'flaunting the law' and 'getting free medical care at the expense of others,' you're buying into the hype. I thought you knew better than that.

Most immigrants to the U.S., illegal or not, want to be Americans, and very much so--if not desperately. Lots of immigrants from all over the world, even their descendents, are still proud of their 'motherland,' and fly the flags. The Irish and Italians flags are an especially common sight.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Don't you love making money? Don't you love moving around relatively unimpeded? That's part of the American Dream.

As far as 'flaunting the law' and 'getting free medical care at the expense of others,' you're buying into the hype. I thought you knew better than that.

Most immigrants to the U.S., illegal or not, want to be Americans, and very much so--if not desperately. Lots of immigrants from all over the world, even their descendents, are still proud of their 'motherland,' and fly the flags. The Irish and Italians flags are an especially common sight.

You have a very simplistic view of the world.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Yes it is, but these people and Bush, are not changing it for the better.

What is better? That is just opinion, even though I highly disagree with Bush on his stance on immigration for other reasons.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They love the money they can make. They love the fact they can move around relatively unimpeded. They love the fact that they can flaunt the law with relative impunity. They love getting free medical care at the expense of others.

Oh please, I work with Mexican immigrants and most are here to feed their families, not to flaunt their immunity or take our wealth. Most just want to achieve the American dream. You even said it yourself.

http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=366418&postcount=67

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Horseshit, the American dream is not to become a millionaire. The American dream is to not skip any meals, not to watch your children die, to have a job so you can provide for you and yours, to be able to send your kids to school, and maybe own a home but at least have shelter. That's why all those immigrants came here.... because they couldn't get those basic things at home.

Yet somehow this is different for Mexicans?

If my family was starving in Mexico and I had to come to the US illegally to not see them starve, I would. It is a conflict of interests, not a good versus evil situation.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

But they don't love this country, they are Mexicans with no desire to be Americans. Their allegiance is to a foreign country, which is why they fly a foreign flag.

You are making a huge assumption. How do you know that every illegal Mexican immigrant has no desire to be American? You are taking a minority and saying that every Mexican immigrant does that, which is flawed logic.

Also, I am sure many Mexicans do not want to join American culture but you can find that with almost every immigrant group. I've been in other highly immigrant influenced areas and they feel like a totally different country and it also seems that they also have no desire to become Americans as well.

There is no Mexican conspiracy to take advantage of Americans, the majority just want to feed their kids since there are no jobs in Mexico which creates a huge conflict of interests.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What is better? That is just opinion, even though I highly disagree with Bush on his stance on immigration for other reasons.

Better is where every able bodied adult citizen has a job that pays a living wage.

Oh please, I work with Mexican immigrants and most are here to feed their families, not to flaunt their immunity or take our wealth. Most just want to achieve the American dream. You even said it yourself.

Are they legal? If so, God bless them, I hope they do well. If not, they are criminals and thieves. My employer doesn't hire non-citizen for my area.

Yet somehow this is different for Mexicans?

No, for illegals of every stripe.

If my family was starving in Mexico and I had to come to the US illegally to not see them starve, I would. It is a conflict of interests, not a good versus evil situation.

Legal=good, illegal=bad, in this situation. Conflict of interests for sure, criminals interests vs American interests.

You are making a huge assumption. How do you know that every illegal Mexican immigrant has no desire to be American? You are taking a minority and saying that every Mexican immigrant does that, which is flawed logic.

You a making a flawed assumption. Nobody can speak for every illegal because that's impossible. We, even bluecuracao, speak in generalities because it's the only way the subject can be discussed at all. So don't pull the nit pic shit, ok?

Also, I am sure many Mexicans do not want to join American culture but you can find that with almost every immigrant group. I've been in other highly immigrant influenced areas and they feel like a totally different country and it also seems that they also have no desire to become Americans as well.

Is that so, totally different country... hmm, are the road signs in English? I'd love to go there, just to get away from McBurgers, Quicky mart, Dairy twirl and pizza chains.
Of the groups of immigrants that came legally, the non-criminals, most made every effort to become Americans, become part in the social and political fabric. Even when the settled in areas with people from their home area of the world, they made sure their kids learned English, recited the Pledge of Allegiance with pride and flew the American flag.
It's after assimilating for generations, the spawn of these immigrants put foreign flag decals on their cars. Their forefathers are doing 78 rpm in their graves.

There is no Mexican conspiracy to take advantage of Americans, the majority just want to feed their kids since there are no jobs in Mexico which creates a huge conflict of interests.

SYLLABICATION: con·spir·a·cy
PRONUNCIATION: kn-spîr-s
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

It would appear you're wrong again, although a conspiracy by Mexicans would be more appropriate than a Mexican conspiracy which sort of implies the Mexican government is party to it. Although... on second thought... maybe not.

We all know there are not enough jobs in Mexico. Not even service sector because they are being served here.
I posted before of the Smithsonian article about the Mexican millionaire from NJ, that went back to build 5 clothing factories, each to employ 2500 people. After the first factory was built, the rest were canceled, because he could not find 500 employees. The people he went to help were all here instead of building a decent place to live at home.

If Mexico was stuck in the middle of the ocean, they would probably have a decent economy going, from all those hard working people without an easier out.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Are they legal? If so, God bless them, I hope they do well. If not, they are criminals and thieves. My employer doesn't hire non-citizen for my area.
Conflict of interests for sure, criminals interests vs American interests.

So there is no way breaking a law can be justified? Depending on how you look at morals, there are situations where you can justify coming to America illegally, not letting your family starve for one.

You a making a flawed assumption. Nobody can speak for every illegal because that's impossible. We, even bluecuracao, speak in generalities because it's the only way the subject can be discussed at all. So don't pull the nit pic shit, ok?

There is a difference from taking a majority view and making a generalization and taking a minority view and making a generalization. Saying that a majority of Mexicans do not want to become Americans is a big stretch.

Of the groups of immigrants that came legally, the non-criminals, most made every effort to become Americans, become part in the social and political fabric. Even when the settled in areas with people from their home area of the world, they made sure their kids learned English, recited the Pledge of Allegiance with pride and flew the American flag.

That is probably true for almost all non-refugee Americans but when people are coming to America at the rate that Hispanics are, it is very hard to think that there isn't a huge problem there.

It would appear you're wrong again, although a conspiracy by Mexicans would be more appropriate than a Mexican conspiracy which sort of implies the Mexican government is party to it. Although... on second thought... maybe not.

Yes, 14 million Mexicans got together to conspire how they were going to illegally cross the Mexican-American border to mock Americans with their immunity. But by that implication, you can say all the car thieves conspired to take our cars and all the pickpockets conspired to take our wallets. So many conspiracies!

We all know there are not enough jobs in Mexico. Not even service sector because they are being served here.
I posted before of the Smithsonian article about the Mexican millionaire from NJ, that went back to build 5 clothing factories, each to employ 2500 people. After the first factory was built, the rest were canceled, because he could not find 500 employees. The people he went to help were all here instead of building a decent place to live at home.

Is this a one time thing or a common occurrence? You also can not simply a problem so complex into something so simple. If it was so easy to build a decent place to live, every country would be a first world country. Duck_duck type thinking doesn't work in real life.