The American Civil War

[Cloud]

if you think that's bad, my mother was still holding onto the fact that we were Orangemen-- even made me wear orange on St. Patrick's Day. And that's what--a 300 year old conflict?

[xoxoxoBruce]

While GA had a hard time getting enough votes to secede in the first place, it was the last state readmitted. I don't think Sherman sat to well. Probably didn't like Mr Peabody, either.

[Jeboduuza]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Has history been "rewritten"? Possibly. Likely, even--it's an inevitable process condensing historical acts through the long lense of hindsight.

History is written by the victors with discrepancies debated and questioned.

Originally Posted by Griff

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery.

The whole point of the civil war was to "Preserve the Union." The confederacy challenged this preservation. Slavery was a huge subplot and probably the most important one. But Griff got it, the war was about preserving the Union. But getting rid of slavery was a huge perk in our nation's history.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is a made up holiday just like freaking Kawanza is.

What holidays weren't made up?

[Flint]

Birthdays.

[Happy Monkey]

Birthdays are made up. The date chosen is based on a standard method, but that method and the celebration is made up. Especially for people born on Feb 29.

[Flint]

The first one isn't made up. Well, the first one is, but the 0th one isn't.

[Happy Monkey]

The event isn't made up, but the holiday is. Just like the spring equinox is an astronomical event, but the Feast of Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary is a holiday.

[Flint]

hmmm... The "holiday" just says "this event happened on this day" which is a statement of fact, if you're standing right there, and the kid pops out, you don't have to look at a calendar, it just happens. Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that nobody celebrates 0th birthdays, as far as I know.

[Happy Monkey]

(from the bellyflop thread)

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They didn't fire on Ft Sumter to protect slavery.

Not directly, at least.

The majority of the northern politicians were moderates that wanted to see the spread of slavery stemmed, but were willing to accept a 50/50 split on new states.

The point of the 50/50 split was to prevent the "other side" from getting too much power in the Senate. The South was worried that if there were too many free states, there would be a federal ban on slavery. Or even an Amendment, as that too is based on state count.

- Acceptance of new states hinged on their position on slavery. That is a MAJOR issue. -

The handful of abolitionists didn't have the power to put an end to slavery in all the new states, let alone the south.

Right, the Civil War wasn't "to free the slaves". But slavery was at the base of most of the economic and cultural differences that caused the split between North and South. Claiming that slavery was a minor issue is as off-base as claiming that it was the only issue.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that nobody celebrates 0th birthdays, as far as I know.

Sure they do, by passing out cigars, donuts, tax exemptions and hearty congrats... and the kid gets a tit.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Flint

hmmm... The "holiday" just says "this event happened on this day" which is a statement of fact,

If it's just a statement of fact, then it's not a holiday.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

But slavery was at the base of most of the economic and cultural differences that caused the split between North and South. Claiming that slavery was a minor issue is as off-base as claiming that it was the only issue.

The economic differences were agricultural vs industrial which made them look at trade from an entirely different perspective and cultural differences were all over the ball park. There were plenty of southern farmers, eager to follow the stars and bars, that never owned a slave. In 1860, a male slave would bring thousands of dollars which made it a rich man's game.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Cloud

In Texas, we celebrate something called "Juneteenth"--supposedly honoring the day the news of emancipation finally reached Way Out West.

June 19th, two months after the end of the war, was the last official public posting and reading of the proclamation. That's when they feel the proclamation was in effect nation wide. Of course that's a little nebulous, but I think that's the reasoning.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The economic differences were agricultural vs industrial

Both sides had plenty of small non-slaveholding farms. The economic differences were between the wealthy powerhouses- industrial vs plantation.

In 1860, a male slave would bring thousands of dollars which made it a rich man's game.

It wasn't the poor men making the 50/50 statehood deals. It wasn't the poor men who formed the CSA government.