Do You Own a Gun?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The slave trade could easily be considered a genocide in many senses and that is a direct result of capitalism. The estimated deaths are from 12 million to 100 million depending on the sources you use (realistically 16-20 million).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanti...ade#Human_toll

The slave trade had nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism is the free trade of goods without harming or endangering others. All people taking part in capitalism are doing so willingly. This would leave the slave trade out.

[lumberjim]

the next person that posts to this thread is a known pedophile

[Yznhymr]

I've been called much worse. I'm such a little...well, ya know...

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Pierce, I'd say it's time for you to read your von Kuehnelt-Leddihn. His argument that both fascism and communism are things of the left is very solidly made, in his Leftism Revisited. He was an unabashed fan of monarchy, particularly the House of Habsburg. YMMV, though.

And really, when it comes to fascism, alleging fascists are rightwingers is nearly meaningless. It is perhaps instructive to consider that Soviet Russian propagandists, not wanting to have to explain to anybody how International Socialism -- Good, while National Socialism -- Bad, picked the distinctive term Hitlerites -- "Gitlerovtsy" -- for the Nazis.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

The slave trade had nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism is the free trade of goods without harming or endangering others. All people taking part in capitalism are doing so willingly. This would leave the slave trade out.

The slave trade has everything to do with capitalism.

The point of capitalism is to make as much profit as possible. If you don't have to pay your workers then you can make maximum profit.

If you disagree please tell me what the slave trade resulted from and why my post is wrong. Then give the definition of capitalism and how the two (capitalism and slave trade) are unrelated.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Pierce, I'd say it's time for you to read your von Kuehnelt-Leddihn. His argument that both fascism and communism are things of the left is very solidly made, in his Leftism Revisited. He was an unabashed fan of monarchy, particularly the House of Habsburg. YMMV, though.

And really, when it comes to fascism, alleging fascists are rightwingers is nearly meaningless. It is perhaps instructive to consider that Soviet Russian propagandists, not wanting to have to explain to anybody how International Socialism -- Good, while National Socialism -- Bad, picked the distinctive term Hitlerites -- "Gitlerovtsy" -- for the Nazis.

I will read him when I get the chance but can you recommend one work that will get the point you are trying to make across the best?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The slave trade has everything to do with capitalism.

The point of capitalism is to make as much profit as possible. If you don't have to pay your workers then you can make maximum profit.

If you disagree please tell me what the slave trade resulted from and why my post is wrong. Then give the definition of capitalism and how the two (capitalism and slave trade) are unrelated.

Wrong. The point of capitalism is the free exchange of goods or money on a value for value basis. When the first caveman traded food for animal skins to stay warm, capitalism was born. Naturally, each party in a transaction will try to get the most for themselves at the least cost.

Slavery did not result from capitalism. It resulted from people like you, who think rights are not part of natural law and who think rights come from "society". It was these people who captured others and sold them into slavery, and these people who bought them.

The buying and selling of slaves had nothing whatsoever to do with capitalism because it has nothing to do with the free exchange of goods. Human beings aren't "goods" even if "society" says so.

[Ibby]

DUH, pierce! Dont you know, capitalism is never wrong - all the other stuff that LOOKS like capitalist mistakes are actually not capitalist at all, you people-hating monster!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The slave trade has everything to do with capitalism.

The point of capitalism is to make as much profit as possible. If you don't have to pay your workers then you can make maximum profit.

If you disagree please tell me what the slave trade resulted from and why my post is wrong. Then give the definition of capitalism and how the two (capitalism and slave trade) are unrelated.

How might you explain the extensive use of slaves in the Gulags of Russia? Given it was essentially a totalitarian/socialistic and eventually a communistic regime, that is the anti-thesis of capitalism.

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...seum/czar3.htm

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Ibram

DUH, pierce! Dont you know, capitalism is never wrong - all the other stuff that LOOKS like capitalist mistakes are actually not capitalist at all, you people-hating monster!

How ironic that in your attempt to be sarcastic, you actually said something that was true. Capitalism is never wrong.

Slavery on the other hand doesn't even look like capitalism to those who know what capitalism actually is.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

How might you explain the extensive use of slaves in the Gulags of Russia? Given it was essentially a totalitarian/socialistic and eventually a communistic regime, that is the anti-thesis of capitalism.

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/econo...seum/czar3.htm

Wasn't that a case trying to get benefit for the state to balance the cost of keeping those prisoners, rather then taking them prisoner to accomplish the work?

[Cicero]

Hi everyone...you know.....again.
I'm too moody to own a gun........I'll admit it.
I've been out to the shooting range several times, and I'm not a bad shot.......It just seems like when I have a gun in my hand other people look very very nervous. And I think to myself- there must be a good reason for that.
Besides, i've been lucky enough so far to "do the do" without one. My aggressors have always lost sorely, and none of them have had a gun. I also don't believe that any of them deserved to die. Of course I thought so at the time, but in retrospect, I think they deserve exactly what they got. No more and no less.

Slavery is about keeping them alive to work, not killing them... cannot be called a genocide. Africans being captured and sold by Africans to whomever would buy them, just as many Europeans as Americans. Not a genocide.
WWII Germany Capitalist!? there was nothing remotely free about that system, nationalizing all the banks and manufacturing ROTFL!... DUDE Pierce, you are so funny... I love reading your stuff, makes my day!
You don't believe in freedom, just own it man.

[piercehawkeye45]

This is pointless. I'm not going to argue with someone who actually believes capitalism is never wrong. It isn't worth it.

Slavery is about keeping them alive to work, not killing them... cannot be called a genocide. Africans being captured and sold by Africans to whomever would buy them, just as many Europeans as Americans. Not a genocide.

Since 1/3 of the blacks that came on slave ships died I'm pretty sure they did a pretty bad job at it. They didn't care if they died or not because they could always get more. When 16 million die that can easily be counted as a genocide. The killing of the culture plays a role in it as well.

[Undertoad]

It's not very useful to consider anything pre-industrial revolution to be Capitalism as we know it. Certainly nothing before 1776 when Adam Smith published "The Wealth of Nations". Probably nothing until Marx came along to define what it was not. Hard to say what the economics was, in the days when most ships sailed under the direction of Kings.