Sanctuary

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, they're citizens. Leave them here to starve to death in the streets or be shot down, while running in packs and preying on people like Lord of the Flies. You happy now?

Or make 'em all scouts and let 'em live on cookies. Maybe we could put them in the zoos that are being emptied because we care more about animals than these kids.

You know that children don't have the same rights as adults. No, make their parents take care of them until they are 18, then if they want to come back, fine, we'll have a welcome back party.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

The info seems to be a little old...1996? I wonder if the estimated percentages still apply.

Let us know what you find out.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by jinx

Let us know what you find out.

It looks like the latest, official detailed estimates came out with the 2000 Census (pdf file).

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...eport_1211.pdf

They estimate the percentage of Mexicans are 69% of illegal immigrants. It could be close to the real number, or not...I wonder how many immigrants from Central and South America just say they're from Mexico, in case they're deported. Then, they're only taken across the border, instead of being flown all the way back to, say, Ecuador, Colombia or Brazil (countries of origin that are estimated to have large jumps in the number of immigrants in 2000) and having to start the journey all over again.

This article from NPR helps explain the estimate sources and methodology. I thought this was particularly interesting:

Historically, people have migrated from Mexico illegally for seasonal work, especially in agriculture. No agency tracks those who migrate illegally, but they are not "immigrants" because they do not stay in the United States. Instead, these migrants moved back and forth across the border.

But border security has increased both the risks and the cost of that circular migration. As a result, there is anecdotal evidence that more people are staying in the United States illegally and even sending for their families. But, again, no numbers yet exist that would accurately prove or disprove that theory.

This could explain why, at least partly, the U.S. has been seeing such a huge increase in undocumented immigrants lately.

These people are stealing time, money and a place in this nation from those who are waiting in line legally to come here the way they should.
What is stopping the US from just going into those churches and arresting those illegals and deporting them like we should. A church is just a building.
I agree, if their nation is so bad, stay and fix it.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

These people are stealing time, money and a place in this nation from those who are waiting in line legally to come here the way they should.
What is stopping the US from just going into those churches and arresting those illegals and deporting them like we should. A church is just a building.
I agree, if their nation is so bad, stay and fix it.

Why, only the same thing that is stopping the US from just going into your compound and arresting those illegals. A compound is just buildings. You cool with that too?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

OK, they're citizens. Leave them here to starve to death in the streets or be shot down, while running in packs and preying on people like Lord of the Flies. You happy now?

Or make 'em all scouts and let 'em live on cookies. Maybe we could put them in the zoos that are being emptied because we care more about animals than these kids.

You know that children don't have the same rights as adults. No, make their parents take care of them until they are 18, then if they want to come back, fine, we'll have a welcome back party.

In the real world, there are children who have one legal immigrant/citizen parent, and one who may face deportation, so the kids end up losing a parent whether they stay or go. Usually, when both parents are deported, they do take their children with them; other times they are left with relatives. Sometimes, they have to go into foster care if their parent(s) can't take them. Ten years ago, this wasn't an issue--parents could stay in the U.S. with their kids. Then some idiotic bill was passed that has resulted in families and communities being uprooted and torn apart.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of churches, etc. for my own purposes, but I'm glad that these institutions are here to take a strong stand on this issue. To me, it speaks a lot for their core purpose in our society.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I agree, if their nation is so bad, stay and fix it.

"Our founding fathers" didn't do that. Even they got the hell out of dodge and moved here.

Or maybe someone can come along and help them fix it. Then we'll end up with a bigger Cuba right next door.

Wrong, they were in their nation, and decided to take it for their own.
Again and again, I have no issue with someone who immigrates legally.

We don't have illegals in our home.
A church is not a home, not the same thing at all.
What is your deal with my house V? You have issues man.

[BigV]

I don't have illegals in my church.

How is a church different than a home? You've held forth at great length and volume as to the separation of church and state, which makes it easy to conclude that the churches are not public property, but private property. Just like your house. The same thing after all.

My deal with your house is exactly the same as your deal with my church. Clearly we share the same issue.

Because a church is not a domicile, it is not private property. It is pretty simple actually.
A chuch is a business.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Doesn't matter if it's a business or domicile, if they know a fugitive from justice is hiding there they have every right to take them out and punish anyone who interferes.

The stupid policy of allowing the parents of children born here to stay is why we have so many families taxing social services, it was a bad policy that should have ended sooner.

Any citizen that marries a criminal should not be surprised if it bites them in the ass.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Mexico has a shitload of soldiers on their southern border to try and stem the flow of illegal aliens which them deem a serious problem. Ironic, ain't it.

[BigV]

Lots of business are private property.

Why does that make it ok for "the US [to]... just going into those churches and arresting those illegals and deporting them like we should." and not other private property?

Just so we're clear--private property, m'kay? Due process, warrants, you remember those? They're *ours*. Not "the US's". Not theirs to take and I'm damn sure not giving them away.

What the hell's wrong with you people?! First xoB says deport those citizens! Fuck! Deport them?! Where?!! This **IS** their country! And now you're saying private property be dammed. Warrants be dammed. Rule of law be dammed, just get those icky people out of here, they're clogging up my church!

I must have missed the Backwards-talking-like-a-Gooberment-Pirate-Day memo.

For the record, I don't really give a rip about your compound. But I'm pretty sure I don't want the free-for-all because-we-can search and destroy mission on it to set any precedent for my home or my church or my business. The government has a hard job, but it's rules, people, rules, that keep it from spinning apart.

We already have evil gremlins like AG Gonzales pulling the threads out of the seams as it is. Stop helping. Stop collaborating. Jay-sus!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Who said they didn't have to have a warrant? I'm saying there is no place to hide, if they know where you are they can come and get you. Churches don't have special dispensation in American law.

First xoB says deport those citizens! Fuck! Deport them?! Where?!! This **IS** their country!

Bullshit, you know damn well children don't have full rights. They are not responsible or capable of caring for themselves in the eyes of the law.

If a parent is deemed not capable do they just throw the kid out on the street? Not hardy. Their parents are responsible for them until they are 18. If your profession forces you to change cities, states, are you going to leave your kids in Seattle because they don't want to move? No, where you go, they go, because they are your responsibility.

So those criminals being deported are relieved of their responsibility to their Kids? Those kids suddenly become my responsibility? Fuck that, I don't want 'em.

[BigV]

Children that are citizens have all the same rights granted by the Constitution that adults that are citizens are granted by the Constitution. Period. I've been unable to find anywhere that says, "under 18 must go!"

So, let me ask you this, what about a purely domestic case where the parent is taken out of the equation. Deportation, sudden death, imprisonment, abduction by aliens, whatEVER. What would you do with those children? Deport *them*? Why does the formerly present, but now absent, parent's status have fuck-all to do with whether or not this young American Citizen is permitted to stay in their country?

You're pretty clear on what the punishment should be here. What is the crime of the child?