Sanctuary

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Very simple;
1-Deport the illegal aliens.
2-Make them take their spawn with them unless they can provide a trust fund to provide for them until they are 18.
3-Jail ANYONE that interferes with the process.
4-Tax churches, Mosques and Synagogues that attempt to hide fugitives.

I suppose it's very simple to for you to wish for, anyway. Reality is, this agenda would be too expensive to implement full-scale. There won't be any taxation of churches, etc. and even if there were, it wouldn't cover the cost.

Regarding "spawn"--whether you like it or not, those who are born here, are citizens. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to go back to their ancestors' country of origin.

Churches across the US have agreed to become part of the New Sanctuary Movement [advocacy website], a program to protect illegal immigrants from arrest and deportation and place pressure on the government to make becoming a citizen an easier process.

Since the people (i.e. human beings) who'd seek sanctuary want to become citizens, what is your problem, exactly? Any other reason besides the petty and very often unrealistic, "they should have gone through the 'proper' channels from their countries of origin"?

[jinx]

"they should have gone through the 'proper' channels from their countries of origin"?

Why is that petty and unrealistic?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by jinx

Why is that petty and unrealistic?

For many new immigrants, it's often unrealistic because the waiting periods are too long to wait (currently at least 10 years) to just get a visa, when you need to support yourself and your family now.

For immigrants who are already here, particularly if they've lived in the U.S. most of their lives, the U.S. is their home. They've gone to school, established networks, and most likely are gainfully employed here. What is the point of forcing them to go back to a country they have little, if any, connection to, just to go through a bureaucratic process?

[xoxoxoBruce]

I suppose it's very simple to for you to wish for, anyway. Reality is, this agenda would be too expensive to implement full-scale. There won't be any taxation of churches, etc. and even if there were, it wouldn't cover the cost.

What would it cost? It's easy for you to say we can't do it because it's too expensive, give me some numbers...and their source.

Regarding "spawn"--whether you like it or not, those who are born here, are citizens. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to go back to their ancestors' country of origin.

Yes, according to the supreme court they are. BUT, they are not obliged to stay here, so this bullshit about wrenching children from their parents is complete bullshit.
Also, why should I have to support the little bastards, why does their spawn become my problem? Why am I responsible for their housing, education and medical care.... as if I wasn't already.

Since the people (i.e. human beings) who'd seek sanctuary want to become citizens, what is your problem, exactly? Any other reason besides the petty and very often unrealistic, "they should have gone through the 'proper' channels from their countries of origin"?

Since the people (ie criminals openly flaunting the laws that everyone else abides by or pays a penalty) are here illegally, that is my problem exactly. Any other reasons besides they don't respect and obey our laws", break the welfare and health care systems and contribute mightily to the increased crime rate, are unnecessary.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What would it cost? It's easy for you to say we can't do it because it's too expensive, give me some numbers...and their source.

Yes, according to the supreme court they are. BUT, they are not obliged to stay here, so this bullshit about wrenching children from their parents is complete bullshit.
Also, why should I have to support the little bastards, why does their spawn become my problem? Why am I responsible for their housing, education and medical care.... as if I wasn't already.

Since the people (ie criminals openly flaunting the laws that everyone else abides by or pays a penalty) are here illegally, that is my problem exactly. Any other reasons besides they don't respect and obey our laws", break the welfare and health care systems and contribute mightily to the increased crime rate, are unnecessary.

You want numbers from me? How about give me some numbers showing how much you're supposedly supporting "the little bastards." How much are undocumented immigrants, specifically, breaking the welfare and healthcare systems? How mightily are they contributing to the crime rate?

[xoxoxoBruce]

They have all been posted over and over in every immigration thread we've had.
But I've never seen any one come up with costs of deporting them.
Certainly it's not the Immigration Service that we're paying anyway.
Court system? That can't be much, bring them before a Magistrate, no proof of citizenship, on the bus.
Although I hear they are now holding them until they can make as sure as they can, the criminals aren't wanted for something else also. That is a minor expense, even less if you just chain them up and don't feed them while they're being checked out.

[BigV]

I'll bite.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

--snip--

2-Make them take their spawn with them unless they can provide a trust fund to provide for them until they are 18.

--snip--
Yes, I am as serious as a heart attack.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

--snip--
Regarding "spawn"--whether you like it or not, those who are born here, are citizens. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to go back to their ancestors' country of origin.

--snip.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

--snip--

Yes, according to the supreme court they [the spawn, Ed.] are. BUT, they are not obliged to stay here, so this bullshit about wrenching children from their parents is complete bullshit.--snip.

Wrong. Not SCOTUS, the Constitution we both revere. *Obligated* to stay here? Who is? You? Me? Only as much as the other citizens. Equally.

Originally Posted by The Constitution of the United States of America

Amendment XIV (1868)
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
[Extracted from The Constitution of the United States of America (May 2006), The Constitution of the United States of America.]

Not too long ago, you were part of this conversation:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce and Aliantha

xoB: Why it was written is a moot point. Only what it says counts.

Ali: Do you really believe that?

xoB: Fuckin A right I do... about the entire Constitution. It's the foundation of our country and our way of life.

Ali: So you don't care why it was written, just that it was?

xoB: Because it doesn't matter. All history of this continent prior to the Constitution being written, is just that, history. It could be lost forever and it would have no effect on us...it wouldn't change the Constitution.

Ali: It's because of history that your world is as it is today, so in my opinion, it's very relevant. Incidents and actions prior to your constitution being written certainly would have contributed to its contents.

I'm just really surprised that you hold such a view Bruce.

xoB: Sure they did, but that's just interesting history. It doesn't change what was written, and that's what we live by.

Unless you're a citizen spawn. How can you square this circle, xoB? Only care for the convenient parts of the Constitution? That is unlike you. I agree our nation has a problem with illegal immigration. We probably don't agree on the severity of that problem, and, based on this recent thread, we damn sure don't agree about which citizens are entitled to Life, Liberty and the Purfuit of Happineff, and which are not.

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, they're citizens. Leave them here to starve to death in the streets or be shot down, while running in packs and preying on people like Lord of the Flies. You happy now?

Or make 'em all scouts and let 'em live on cookies. Maybe we could put them in the zoos that are being emptied because we care more about animals than these kids.

You know that children don't have the same rights as adults. No, make their parents take care of them until they are 18, then if they want to come back, fine, we'll have a welcome back party.