Do You Own a Gun?

[piercehawkeye45]

Everyone is born with rights but once you join a society you give up some rights to be accepted in the society.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Everyone is born with rights but once you join a society you give up some rights to be accepted in the society.

False. Your rights end where another person's begin, but you do not "give up" your rights to be accepted in society. Society has no rights. Society is a collection of individuals. Individuals have no legitimate authority or power to deny another person to exercise their rights. They therefore can't legitimately grant this power to government.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

False. Your rights end where another person's begin, but you do not "give up" your rights to be accepted in society. Society has no rights. Society is a collection of individuals. Individuals have no legitimate authority or power to deny another person to exercise their rights. They therefore can't legitimately grant this power to government.

What are you talking about?

Not like I had much choice since I was born here but I gave up my right to drink under the age of 21, use marijuana, have grenades, have nuclear weapons, kill someone, rape someone, hold whoever I want prisoner, own someone, and millions of other "rights" to live here without getting fined or going to jail.

Do you have a right to own a nuclear weapon? Why can't I own nuclear weapons? Because I decided to live in a society where nuclear weapons are outlawed therefore I gave up my right to own nuclear weapons to live in my society.


I have to agree 100% with Shawnee123 on this one. Rights are just like ethics, something that is made up by society. Also, you can not confuse philosophy (rights, ethics) with science (gravity, evolution) because one will disappear once humans are gone and the other will continue until heat death.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What are you talking about?

Not like I had much choice since I was born here but I gave up my right to drink under the age of 21, use marijuana, have grenades, have nuclear weapons, kill someone, rape someone, hold whoever I want prisoner, own someone, and millions of other "rights" to live here without getting fined or going to jail.

Do you have a right to own a nuclear weapon? Why can't I own nuclear weapons? Because I decided to live in a society where nuclear weapons are outlawed therefore I gave up my right to own nuclear weapons to live in my society.


I have to agree 100% with Shawnee123 on this one. Rights are just like ethics, something that is made up by society. Also, you can not confuse philosophy (rights, ethics) with science (gravity, evolution) because one will disappear once humans are gone and the other will continue until heat death.

What are YOU talking about? Yes, You do have the right to smoke marijuana. You also have the right to drink alcohol when you've reached the age of majority (18), and you have the right own grenades, and even nukes as long as you don't use them to infringe on the rights of others and you can ensure that your neighbors are not harmed by radiation caused by them.

All laws against any of these things is a violation of our rights and is a violation of the U.S. Constitution and natural law. You haven't given up your right to own nukes. You may choose not to exercise them, and they you may have your rights violated by being prevented from owning them by force, but this does not mean you don't have the right or that you've given up the right.

Your rights can't be bought, sold, taken, given, or voted away. If every person in the world voted for gravity to go away, we'd still have gravity tomorrow, and the same is true of our rights.

You do not have the right to rape, kill, imprison, or own people because this violates their rights. Your rights end where another person's begin. They don't come from government and government has no legitimate authority to limit our rights. This means you couldn't have given up a right or even chosen not to exercise it because you never had such a right.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

... You also have the right to drink alcohol when you've reached the age of majority (18)...

Why not before 18? Who determines the age of majority?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why not before 18? Who determines the age of majority?

This is a gray area. In some cultures the age of majority (consent) is recognized as 13, or 16, etc. but in America, and England before that, for hundreds and hundreds of years, it's been generally accepted to be 18.

Children have rights, but their parents are their stewards and get to make all decisions over their life (unless those decisions endanger their children or otherwise violate their rights) until they reach the age of majority in their particular culture. I suppose if you move out when you're 16 and are paying your own bills, you are an adult and can consume what you please.

No person or group of people, regardless of their number, has any legitimate authority to tell another person what they will or won't do with their own body, what they will or won't consume (assuming what they are consuming was obtained honestly), what medical procedures they will have, which consenting adults they will or won't have sex with, etc.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

...You do not have the right to rape, kill, imprison, or own people because this violates their rights. Your rights end where another person's begin. They don't come from government and government has no legitimate authority to limit our rights. This means you couldn't have given up a right or even chosen not to exercise it because you never had such a right.

Do I have the right to have sex with animals? To commit suicide? Is running a stop sign infringing on others' rights, if no one else is at the intersection?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Do I have the right to have sex with animals? To commit suicide? Is running a stop sign infringing on others' rights, if no one else is at the intersection?

Yes, you have the right to have sex with animals, assuming you own the animals in question. And yes, since you own yourself and your life, you have every right to end it if you choose. You also have the right to prostitute yourself, to gamble, to marry your cousin (even if they are the same gender), etc.

You have the right to do ANYTHING you want as long as your actions do not infringe on the person, property, or rights of non-consenting others.

You do not have the right to run a stop sign because you could endanger others, even if you don't see them and believe an intersection is empty.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

... You also have the right to drink alcohol when you've reached the age of majority (18)....

Why do you feel justified in limiting the rights of minors to drink alcohol, but will not tolerate ANY limitations on gun ownership?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why do you feel justified in limiting the rights of minors to drink alcohol, but will not tolerate ANY limitations on gun ownership?

Are minors allowed to own guns?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by monster

Are minors allowed to own guns?

No.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Why do you feel justified in limiting the rights of minors to drink alcohol, but will not tolerate ANY limitations on gun ownership?

I don't feel justified in limiting the rights of anyone. Minors have no rights other than basic human rights. They may not make decisions for themselves; only their parents may do it.

If a parent wants to allow a minor to drink alcohol at home, I have no problem with it.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Radar

Our rights come from natural law, which is part of the laws of nature. Where does gravity come from? It's a constant. It's a universal law of nature and is no more or less immutable than our rights. Rights are undeniable and self-evident and are with us from the moment of birth.

If you're unclear about natural law or rights, I suggest you read up on them because they are the foundation of our laws in America.

And yes, all gun control laws are unconstitutional, and a direct violation of our natural rights.

Originally Posted by Radar

I don't feel justified in limiting the rights of anyone. Minors have no rights other than basic human rights. They may not make decisions for themselves; only their parents may do it.

If a parent wants to allow a minor to drink alcohol at home, I have no problem with it.

Can you clear up these apparent contradictions?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What are you talking about?

Not like I had much choice since I was born here but I gave up my right to drink under the age of 21, use marijuana, have grenades, have nuclear weapons, kill someone, rape someone, hold whoever I want prisoner, own someone, and millions of other "rights" to live here without getting fined or going to jail.
Do you have a right to own a nuclear weapon? Why can't I own nuclear weapons? Because I decided to live in a society where nuclear weapons are outlawed therefore I gave up my right to own nuclear weapons to live in my society.
I have to agree 100% with Shawnee123 on this one. Rights are just like ethics, something that is made up by society. Also, you can not confuse philosophy (rights, ethics) with science (gravity, evolution) because one will disappear once humans are gone and the other will continue until heat death.

You gave up nothing....they didn't ask you to give up anything. Everything you can't do was a right taken away from you.

Rights are not created by society, they are taken away by society.
Is there a law that say you have the right to go to the Dairy Queen and get brain freeze? No, laws only take rights away, not give them.

When a deer in the woods wakes up in the morning does it contemplate whether it can go here or there. No, it has the right to go where ever it wants until someone takes part of that right away by putting up a fence or something.
It's the same for humans. When you wake up in the morning you can do anything you want unless someone has taken the right to do that away.

Your rights are not like ethics, they are not analyzed and agreed upon. Laws are like ethics. Rights are natural and yours until they are taken away by society with it's laws/ethics.