Split from Cloud's Kids&Internet Thread

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by GuinivereXBloodgood

TM, why can't you just accept the fact that you're only making an ass of yourself even more?

Seriously dude, chill. Quit arguing just to be arguing.

Chill, I am having fun.

Let me ask you a question.

Do you think there is anything on the internet that you could monitor of your teen that would be inappropriate?

So basically, you as a parent, believe that your kid is so totally trustworthy and such an angel that there would be no chance that anything they do on the internet could be harmful or that any information that you, as a parent, could ever gleem to help prevent that child from heading into trouble??? Please give me a response, I am curious.

[GuinivereXBloodgood]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Chill, I am having fun.

Let me ask you a question.

Do you think there is anything on the internet that you could monitor of your teen that would be inappropriate?

So basically, you as a parent, believe that your kid is so totally trustworthy and such an angel that there would be no chance that anything they do on the internet could be harmful or that any information that you, as a parent, could ever gleem to help prevent that child from heading into trouble??? Please give me a response, I am curious.

First of all, I don't think you realize that I am younger than Ibram, therefore it is quite impossible for me to be the parent of a teenager, seeing as I am one.

And second, I have friends who are living proof that if you track your kid's every move and micro-manage their lives, they will go wild as soon as they're out on their own. So that, my friend, is only inviting trouble, not preventing it.

[monster]

I'm with Ibram. I have three kids. I teach them how to stay safe on the internet and then let them loose (ish) -mine are younger than Ibram, so still need enough help that I know what they're up to anyway. But I will give them a pretty free reign when older. You want your children to grow up to be responsible -you gotta give them a chance to practice responsibility. Over-protected and spied-on children just become more devious -often at the expense of other things to which they should be applying their intellect.

p.s. Merc, if you're such a good parent and a good judge of what is appropriate for teens on the web, how come you don't know how to respond appropriately to a 16yo on a forum like this?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by monster

p.s. Merc, if you're such a good parent and a good judge of what is appropriate for teens on the web, how come you don't know how to respond appropriately to a 16yo on a forum like this?

Just playing Devils Advocate to a teen who has no idea what it is like to be a parent.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by monster

p.s. Merc, if you're such a good parent and a good judge of what is appropriate for teens on the web, how come you don't know how to respond appropriately to a 16yo on a forum like this?

§

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by monster

p.s. Merc, if you're such a good parent and a good judge of what is appropriate for teens on the web, how come you don't know how to respond appropriately to a 16yo on a forum like this?

How do you think Stalin would have responded if one of the proletariat had walked up to him and cussed him out to his face, and he couldnt simply kill him?

[Undertoad]

Which is what I have asked from the beginning... The teen cannot make the point

Literally, "against the man". As long as you construct the argument this way, you are committing the logical fallacy. Address the point, not the teen.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Literally, "against the man". As long as you construct the argument this way, you are committing the logical fallacy. Address the point, not the teen.

Ah yes, but please note the teen attacked the premise that a parent has no right to spy on his children and that such action deemed him/her, father/mother to be a "mother-fucking asshole", and you have no offense to this?? this is perfectly acceptable as a parent to be called a "mother-fucking asshose" with absolutely no response??? If an adult was standing next to this punk teen most would back-hand deck the little fag with a firm fist and break his jaw.

But given this is all virtual, obviously anything goes, as long as you are a teen. Correct?

[Beestie]

The horrific mistake that Merc is making is confusing control for instruction.

Kids who are controlled like automatons never learn how to exercise good judgement. Their first day in college, they will not know how to handle all the evils available to them because they have never had to make a decision in their entire life - all their decisions were pre-empted by Stalinist-level control.

You can't teach a child how to choose good over bad if they are raised in a hermetically sealed bubble.

All that Merc is accomplishing is deferring their exploratory years to when their actions are no longer Merc's problem. Basically, a philosophy of "screw up all you want just wait till you move out to do it."

That is nothing short of an abdication of parental responsibility.

Its really not that different than not teaching your child how to drive. You have to teach them then you have to give him (or her - this isn't a gender issue) the keys now and then and not let them see you pray to God that they come back in once piece.

If you don't show a child some trust, then don't expect any back.

I'm with Ibram on this one.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Beestie

The horrific mistake that Merc is making is confusing control for instruction.

Kids who are controlled like automatons never learn how to exercise good judgement. Their first day in college, they will not know how to handle all the evils available to them because they have never had to make a decision in their entire life - all their decisions were pre-empted by Stalinist-level control.

You can't teach a child how to choose good over bad if they are raised in a hermetically sealed bubble.

All that Merc is accomplishing is deferring their exploratory years to when their actions are no longer Merc's problem. Basically, a philosophy of "screw up all you want just wait till you move out to do it."

That is nothing short of an abdication of parental responsibility.

Its really not that different than not teaching your child how to drive and giving him the keys now and then and not letting them see you pray to God that they come back in once piece.

If you don't show a child some trust, then don't expect any back.

I'm with Ibram on this one.

Woooowooo my friend... There are no statement of abdication or control for that matter, only monitoring and appropriate intervention when and if things appear to be getting out of hand.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Woooowooo my friend... There are no statement of abdication or control for that matter, only monitoring and appropriate intervention when and if things appear to be getting out of hand.

Abdication might be too strong a word but the point I am making is that you can't expect a kid to develop the self discipline to choose not to visit unsavory content if you screen it all out.

What is he going to do when he's 19, out on his own with his own computer and no daddy sitting on his head clubbing him each time he strays to the dark corner of the internet - or strip clubs - or whatever.

What are you teaching when you demonstrate zero trust in your kids?

And I'd be willing to bet $50.00 that your kids have probably figured out how to tunnel through your Great Wall of Purity. For every safeguard, there is a hack. Keyloggers, screen cap software, site monitoring software - all of it can be hacked. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if they got the software while at their friend's house (oops - security breach) and installed it on your home machine. Don't bother looking for it - it won't show up in task manager.

Distrust breeds subversion.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Abdication might be too strong a word but the point I am making is that you can't expect a kid to develop the self discipline to choose not to visit unsavory content if you screen it all out.

What is he going to do when he's 19, out on his own with his own computer and no daddy sitting on his head clubbing him each time he strays to the dark corner of the internet - or strip clubs - or whatever.

What are you teaching when you demonstrate zero trust in your kids?

And I'd be willing to bet $50.00 that your kids have probably figured out how to tunnel through your Great Wall of Purity. For every safeguard, there is a hack. Keyloggers, screen cap software, site monitoring software - all of it can be hacked. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if they got the software while at their friend's house (oops - security breach) and installed it on your home machine. Don't bother looking for it - it won't show up in task manager.

Distrust breeds subversion.

Never said I ever screened it all out. Only that parents should know what is going on when their teens are on the web. I have never clubbed any of my kids. Although I wanted to once or twice.

My older kids are already out there doing what ever they do, that is their responsibility now. They will be responsible for their own actions.

I know computers much better than my kids so I doubt any of the later will happen.

But we digress from the topic.

Do parents have a right to know what their kids are doing on the net when such access is only available in their homes???

[Ibby]

Do you ever learn, Merc?

Stop with the ad hominem argument. Its failing and making you look like a fool.
The first quote of mine was addressed to cloud. If you like, ignore it and focus on the second. I'll say it again for good measure.

"If your kids have half a brain at all they can make their own decisions about what is and isnt okay. You teach them how to be safe, and let them do the rest."

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Do you ever learn, Merc?

Stop with the ad hominem argument. Its failing and making you look like a fool.
The first quote of mine was addressed to cloud. If you like, ignore it and focus on the second. I'll say it again for good measure.

"If your kids have half a brain at all they can make their own decisions about what is and isnt okay. You teach them how to be safe, and let them do the rest."

If you call me a "mother fucking asshole" that is hardly an "ad hominen" argument, no matter how hard you want to cover your teen ass, sorry that dog will not hunt either.

[zippyt]

As with all teens, yourself included, you do not have the "half of a brain" for which to make decisions about what is ok and what is not ok.

I dissagree , That is a WAYYYY broad statement about ALL teens , now I agree that some kids can do some STUPID stuff , there ARE those teens that are more senseable than some adults .