Shooting at Virginia Tech

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

What the hell is that suppose to prove? Whether or not 100,000 or 2 people have died from poisoning, it doesn’t change the fact that 12,000 people have died from homicide in 2004. I have never compared firearm deaths to any other death statistics because I don't think it is a contest, they are all horrible and we should be working to prevent deaths in every field. If you are honestly using this to back up a pro-gun view, I highly suggest looking at yourself and what you stand for.

Don't be a frigging tool... the point is that the statistics are not all that alarming when taken in the context of all deaths. 46,000 people died from MVA's and I don't hear you quoting some anti-auto site to make sensational claims. Death is a fact of life, here, over there, everywhere. I don't think this is a contest either. This is a discussion, keep it that way. Given that there were 2,400,000 deaths in the US in 2004 the figure of 12,000 deaths is a whopping 0.005% of all deaths in the US for that year.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf

[duck_duck]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Don't be a frigging tool... the point is that the statistics are not all that alarming when taken in the context of all deaths. 46,000 people died from MVA's and I don't hear you quoting some anti-auto site to make sensational claims. Death is a fact of life, here, over there, everywhere. I don't think this is a contest either. This is a discussion, keep it that way. Given that there were 2,400,000 deaths in the US in 2004 the figure of 12,000 deaths is a whopping 0.005% of all deaths in the US for that year.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr54/nvsr54_19.pdf

That is an unrealistic comparison because guns are designed weapons and cars are not.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by duck_duck

That is an unrealistic comparison because guns are designed weapons and cars are not.

I guess my comments are about things we can do to avoid deaths in general. Regardless of what causes them.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by sycamore

I'm not sure what exactly you're saying here, Wolf. If he was schizophrenic, it certainly could have been a result of environmental and/or psychosocial factors.

Most of the current research indicates that schizophrenia is a brain disorder, either chemical or structural. Stressors can exacerbate symptoms, but they don't cause the disease.

Originally Posted by sycamore

1) "If it bleeds, it leads"...that's journalism in today's society. Did the police really expect NBC to sit on it?

NBC only posted the excerpts they did because they were given permission. Frankly, I'd love to see the entire manifesto, including all the video clips.

I collect crazy guy manifestos whenever possible.

I have some good suicide notes, too.

Originally Posted by sycamore

So is April the official month of crazy? Look how much bad shit has happened in April in this country.

I go to a conference every other year on Critical Incident Stress Management. Three times, half of the conference speakers (mostly the FBI guys and other sorts of feds) have had to leave because "something happened." "Something" being things like Branch Davidian, Oklahoma City, and Columbine ... all occured during the conference.

We actually experience a lull in April at the nuthouse. When I left work tonight we were at 64% capacity. We usually are closer to 95%, and gone as high as 116%, but usually manage to cap things at around 105%. Yes, we end up with more patients than we have beds.

Originally Posted by AgentApathy

To look at these figures, it seems like we need to balance US suicide figures against those of others where violence is "less rampant." Do you really think that suicides will cease to happen if guns aren't available, or (more likely) that people will just find another way?

Although they get a lot more attention, I deal with relatively few suicides by firearm. Based on my own experience, I'd put #1 at overdose, #2 cutting, #3 jumping from high places. #4 kind of sorts out to CO poisoning, hanging, and other (I had a suicide attempt by toothpaste ingestion once). It stands to reason that a higher number of completed suicides are by firearm, but I don't think it would #1 for attempts. Stats on completed suicides are pretty easy to find, I've searched around a bit and can't find any for attempt without completion. There are 16 attempted suicides for every completed suicide according to the CDC.

Originally Posted by duck_duck

That is an unrealistic comparison because guns are designed weapons and cars are not.

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than ALL of my firearms (and knives and swords).

[duck_duck]

Originally Posted by wolf

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than ALL of my firearms (and knives and swords).

That is irrelevant. Whomever ted kennedy is, his car was not designed as a weapon nor is it something that can be banned because a great deal of ameicans depend on cars to work, go to the market etc.
Guns on the other hand are specifically designed to kill. It is not wise to allow a population that glorifies violence to have access to firearms.

[AgentApathy]

Originally Posted by duck_duck

Whomever ted kennedy is,

Let me get this right: you want to speak authoritatively on the US based on your short time here, but you don't know who Ted Kennedy is?

I think you can STFU now.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by AgentApathy

Let me get this right: you want to speak authoritatively on the US based on your short time here, but you don't know who Ted Kennedy is?

I think you can STFU now.

I don't think her failure to know the name of the washed up drunk who represents the fine citizens of Massachussets has any real bearing on her point. Not that I agree with her point but your point really isn't material to the debate not to mention kind of asinine.

[freshnesschronic]

Originally Posted by duck_duck

Guns on the other hand are specifically designed to kill. It is not wise to allow a population that glorifies violence to have access to firearms.

That is 100% wrong. Why would the market sell guns to kill? Who preacehs killing? What society holds killing close to their heart? Every culture kills, but no culture THRIVES off killing (except maybe the Yanomami?).

Handguns are NOT DESIGNED to kill. They and every other firearm have other uses, like say, protection. You can shoot someone in the knee and you do NOT have the motive to kill them.

No one can win this arguement. Duck duck is from a gun banning culture. Her beliefs are 10000x different than the average Americans'. As much stuff as we can tell her she will never believe guns are used for good. Let's stop arguing a futile cause, because we all know guns have very positive effects and that America is NOT a "rampant" society. Someone just stated the stats above.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

You can shoot someone in the knee and you do NOT have the motive to kill them.

That, unfortunately, will get to 10 to 20 most of the time. Wouding someone with a lethal weapon puts you in a very difficult and awkward legal situation. The prosecutor will simply use the boilerplate cross examination to make the point that if you really were in fear of your life then you could not possibly deliver a restrained response (making the point that you really weren't in fear of you life) and will prosecute you on that basis.

If you have a gun and someone is trying to kill you then dont' stop shooting until they are dead. Vital areas only.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Handguns are NOT DESIGNED to kill. They and every other firearm have other uses, like say, protection. You can shoot someone in the knee and you do NOT have the motive to kill them.

.

Nice stretch, fresh. I almost had coffee shoot out my nose. Thanks for the laugh.

[freshnesschronic]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Nice stretch, fresh. I almost had coffee shoot out my nose. Thanks for the laugh.

What the hell is so funny? I'm sure the gun owners here did not buy them because they aim to kill anyone. They probably bought it for PROTECTION.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Handguns are NOT DESIGNED to kill. They and every other firearm have other uses, like say, protection. You can shoot someone in the knee and you do NOT have the motive to kill them.

Grenades aren't designed to kill, either. Carefully used, you could use the pressure wave to stun or remove several toes to incapacitate your attacker.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

...Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than ALL of my firearms (and knives and swords).

So has Laura Bush's. Your point?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

So has Laura Bush's. Your point?

Her point, O Spexx The Irrational, Tedious And Purblind, who refuseth ever to see, in saecula saeculorum -- I could go on but I dislike boring myself -- is that if murder is in your heart, you'd do it with a big wet rock, and if murder is not in your heart, you wouldn't do it with a case of weeping, overage dynamite.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Her point, O Spexx The Irrational, Tedious And Purblind, who refuseth ever to see, in saecula saeculorum...

When your side of the argument is weak, resort to name-calling and insults.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

-- I could go on but I dislike boring myself -- ....

And yet you continue to bore everyone else.