Where am I politically?

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by tw

Why does a discussion that started on religion then move to politics?

Actually, I think this discussion started on politics and moved to religion. Which makes perfect sense, because politics and religion are inextricably intertwined, so much so that I dare say they are virtually the same thing.

Religion is about control. Politics is about control. Law is often born from religion and politics, and not from a genuine desire to protect.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by grant

Religion is about control. Politics is about control. Law is often born from religion and politics, and not from a genuine desire to protect.

roger that

[tw]

Originally Posted by grant

Which makes perfect sense, because politics and religion are inextricably intertwined, so much so that I dare say they are virtually the same thing.

I daresay that when religion (that is fully based only in emotional perceptions) is intertwined with politics, then we have the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, and "Mission Accomplished". In each case, nothing logical and nothing based in what religion is supposed to be, instead, resulted in an adverse conclusion.

Politics is a relationship of the many. Religion is a relationship between one man and his god(s). Where do these two intertwine? They don't and they must not. Once these two do intertwine, then the naive start thinking in terms of 'good and evil'. As George Jr demonstrated - as has been repeatedly proven in history - when conclusions are made in 'black and white'; 'good and evil'; 'them and us' ... then we get racism, ethnic cleansing, the holocaust, 11 September, the 30 Years War, Vietnam, and "Mission Accomplished".

At what point do we learn from history; learn using logic rather than do things for the glory of god?

When religion becomes more than a relationship between one and his gods, then (if you believe in 'good and evil') evil abounds. The 'good' therefore become the 'evil'. Anytime religion becomes intertwined with politics or religion is used to justify actions against another, then the purpose of religion has been perverted.

Religion can only serve its strategic objective when it remains a relationship between one man and his gods. To intertwine religion with politics only perverts and destroys what religion was created to promote. Scary are those who cannot keep religion where it belongs for they are the ones who have made the world so dangerous for all Americans.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Religion is a relationship between one man and his god(s).

I disagree. What you have described is belief. Religion is when two or more people feel they have the same relationship with the same God(s), ie belief and want to band together for mutual whatever.

I think too many people don't know the difference, because the look to the religion to tell them what their belief should be, rather than having their belief dictate what religion they should be.

I don't want to get into a semantics thing, just make a distinction between the two situations. The belief that I described will most certainly enter into an individuals political bent, but his religion should not.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Religion is when two or more people feel they have the same relationship with the same God(s), ie belief and want to band together for mutual whatever.

And so they form religious organizations to 'assist' or 'consult'. Eventually those organizations become so corrupt as to insist THEY are the conduit to god.

They are organizations. Your priest or rabbi is only a consultant. He is not the religion. He and you may become members of a club - a social organization of people who share a common relationship to their god.

And that social organization does not change the bottom line fact. Religion is only a relationship between the man and his gods.

Too many confuse the Catholic Church with a religion. The religion exists with or without that church. The church is not a religion. It is only a support group - a social organization. And when perverted, the church becomes a political action committee - to impose their beliefs on all others.

And still, religion remains a relationship between the one man and his gods - no matter how often those social (religious) organizations try to pervert that relationship.

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, you're using religion for faith and church for religion, whatever, as long as you define the distinction.
But I'm telling you people are going to misinterpret your remarks and position, like when you say Bush "Pearl Harbored" Iraq when 99% (made up internet fact) of the population, attach sneak attack to Pearl Harbor, rather than unjustified attack like you insist.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

OK, you're using religion for faith and church for religion, whatever, as long as you define the distinction.

Church is not religion. Church is a social organization - and consults to you and your religious beliefs. Too many confuse churches with the relgion. Church is as much of a religion as the consultant is an employee of your company.

Again, to promote themselves, churches misrepresent themselves as the religion - ie the Pope speaks for god. No he does not. (Actually god only talks to George Jr and Pat Robertson - but we need not discuss those religions.)