Is it ever *ok* to cheat?

[kerosene]

Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune!

To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never *want* another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never *want* another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or dishonesty. This has enriched our relationship.

Oh yeah, and our marriage vows were impromptu. I am fairly certain there was no inclusion of any of the standard vows that are heard most often in weddings. This was what was right for us.

I respect the views of others. I think LJ mentioned in a separate thread that monogamy is a social structure that we humans created (something like that). I agree and choose not to completely accept that structure, but I respect it. Having been cheated on, I remember what it felt like to expect that fidelity and I will admit (boo, hiss) that I have been dishonest about a situation of infidelity in my past, as well. I learned something from that...that for me, to expect that or have that expected of me isn't what I want.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by case

Iggy and Spode, I should have stayed in Kansas, and we could have all formed a commune!

To me, cheating is only cheating if dishonesty is involved. I would consider it cheating in my relationship if my husband was not honest with me about a person he was in love with and planned to leave me for. And at that point, I would realize the relationship is no longer worth continuing. I trust that he will be honest with me about this if it ever occurs. However, I am optimistic that this will not happen, since we are honest with each other and I know that he loves me and I love him. I don't expect that he will never *want* another woman. I believe that is unrealistic as it would be unrealistic for me to never *want* another man. There is also a definite level of emotional connection with other people that we recognize and free each other to experience. I know that because we give each other all the freedom we want in the relationship that there is no reason for jealousy or

this is a thread about cheating, and that implies secrecy. if you know your spouse has a friend that they love, or if you know they are boinking someone else, and you're ok with it....then it's not really cheating, is it?

do you always feel the same way about it, or does your opinion waver? You allude to 'experiencing' other people. In thinking about this logically, I would expect that it would be easier to deal with your partner becoming emotionally attached to someone else if it were a platonic relationship. the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

I think it might be harder for me to deal with it if my spouse started spending time away from me with another man.....even if I was positive that nothing physical went down....and definitely if there were. harder than dealing with a temporary infidelity, that is. neither would be any fun...as you say, if there were dishonesty involved, and it would take time to heal....I just think that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive a roll in the hay then it would to forgive a secret love on the side.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

this is a thread about cheating, and that implies secrecy. if you know your spouse has a friend that they love, or if you know they are boinking someone else, and you're ok with it....then it's not really cheating, is it?

Nope.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

do you always feel the same way about it, or does your opinion waver? You allude to 'experiencing' other people. In thinking about this logically, I would expect that it would be easier to deal with your partner becoming emotionally attached to someone else if it were a platonic relationship. the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

Hmmm....I feel the same way about this all the time. In the beginning of our relationship it wasn't quite the same as it is now, but it has changed and I expect,accept and embrace that. Platonic relationships are cool. Platonic can mean anything you want it to. I am not sure what you are asking me, here but I hope I have sufficiently clarified.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I think it might be harder for me to deal with it if my spouse started spending time away from me with another man.....even if I was positive that nothing physical went down....and definitely if there were. harder than dealing with a temporary infidelity, that is. neither would be any fun...as you say, if there were dishonesty involved, and it would take time to heal....I just think that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive a roll in the hay then it would to forgive a secret love on the side.

I could completely understand that it would be harder to forgive a roll in the hay than a secret love, but if there is no secret and an understanding of our expectations (or lack thereof) there is nothing to forgive. We enjoy giving each other this freedom. The way I see it: I don't really have a right to limit him to what he should experience and I don't want to be limited either.

I want to also mention that this has not been an excuse to "boink" everyone out there. Honesty with each other is not exclusive. I would never want to hurt another person for my own desires just because I have a desire to "experience" something. These things have been pretty rare.

[kerosene]

Wow, I am starting to feel as if I have exposed something to the cellar. It actually feels pretty good.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

the posts elspode has shared about selene being out on dates, however, have the opposite impact on my imagination.

My posts on that topic are meant to reveal my own state of mind at a given moment - the moment of the posting, actually. It isn't required, or even possible (IMHO) to be always and utterly at ease with everything about a poly relationship.

It is my own internal and minute to minute misgivings I share. I'm not intending to indict the *concept* of poly/open marriage. I feel as though that sharing what goes through my head is far more honest than waxing eloquent about the philosophical, emotional and intellectual superiority of poly relationships. I have, in fact, seen someone do exactly that on an e-list recently, and watched with some bemusement as his wife divorced him a couple of short months later. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned somewhere along the line that this sort of thing isn't right for everyone, and on some evenings, it isn't right for me, either. But I usually get over it once I've whined enough.

Mostly, I'm whining because I'm not exactly a hot property right now, while Selene is doing rather well. I am happy for her, unhappy for me, and that's a part of the reality of this type of relationship. I don't really mean to communicate anything other than my own chagrin, and to provide some insight on the inner workings of insecurity and polyamory in action. Think of it as my offering in the intellectual voyeurism contest.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Extramarital sex leads to extramarital intimacy.
Extramarital intimacy leads to extramarital love.
Extramarital love leads to marital fear.
Marital fear leads to marital anger.
Marital anger leads to marital stress.
Marital stress leads to doobies.
Doobies leads to Twinkies.
Twinkies lead to fat.
Fat leads to embarrassment.
Embarrassment leads to hiding in the Cellar instead of getting fresh air and exercise.
Works for me.

[Elspode]

One of the ways that I know that Bruce is a really standup guy is that he insists on making me look at the big picture, even though I really only want to scan the Readers Digest.

For someone I've never met, he's about my best damn friend in many ways.

[kerosene]

Bruce, are you saying that extramarital sex is the path to the dark side?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by case

Bruce, are you saying that extramarital sex is the path to the dark side?

No, but I guarantee it leads to a change in the relationship.

That could be good or bad depending on a slew of variables, but if you like where you're at, and don't want any changes, I'd recommend against it.

[Sheldonrs]

I have never understood the mindset of someone who dates/sleeps with a married person, hoping they will leave their spouse and marry them.
All you are getting is someone who cheats on the person they are married to.

That's like stealing a great looking car and parking it the middle of the worst neighborhood and leaving the doors un-locked.