Should taxpayer dollars be used to fund private education?

[Griff]

I went to a horrible public school. We were trained to have low expectations, keep our mouths shut, and stay in line. Based on the present conformation of American society, I'd say these lessons were well learned in many places.

Individual teachers, administrators, and philosophers do care about children, but the system's purpose is to create fodder for corporations and cannons. It is a creaky system left over from the first half of the last century when mass society demanded a uniform product of minimum standards. Much like our army we're geared to fighting the last war. Even now the national standards craze further consolidates power and stifles innovation. Our inflexible system is creating inflexible people.

It is true that parents will avoid being responsible for their children no matter what system is in place. The question for me is, who bears ultimate responsibility for children? Euros believe in socialism and public schools are the backbone of that system, unfortunately some of us see that system as another form of slavery.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Griff

It is true that parents will avoid being responsible for their children no matter what system is in place.

What I didn't express very well was that the majority of parents I knew growing up were very much involved in their children's lives. My niece and nephew are at state school and trust me - there isn't an aspect of their lives that my sister doesn't currently have input into.

Perhaps British schools involve parents more? When I was at secondary school (12+) I can't remember a month going past without some sort of communication between the school and parents for one reason or another- school fete, musical, carol concert, voting for the Board of Governors, athletics team schedule, Parents' Evening etc etc.

Originally Posted by Griff

The question for me is, who bears ultimate responsibility for children?

The parents of course. I can't stress how much I believe that. It's very difficult to take a child from a home where there is no respect, discipline, love of learning, manners etc etc and expect them to perform well in school. And parents are responsible - ultimately - for their children's education. But they are also responsible for their children's health - it doesn't mean that every parent should be capable of performing surgery on the kitchen table. I know it's stretching the point, but it is more cost effective to educate children together and I believe it is reasonable to raise taxes to do so.

Originally Posted by Griff

Euros believe in socialism...

We have had a right-leaning watered-down socialist government for the last 10 years. In the last 100 years Conservative rule has far exceeded Labour or Liberal rule. I grew up seeing access to education as practically a right, rather than a socilalist ideal. And I grew up under a right-wing Prime Minister.

Originally Posted by Griff

...and public schools are the backbone of that system, unfortunately some of us see that system as another form of slavery.

I prefer to see it as a form of freedom. It doesn't matter whether your parent is poor. They might have a low IQ, or they might simply be lazy. If you work hard and are blessed with some natural talent you will be able to use the education society has given you to benefit yourself and indirectly society in return. I thought that was one of the central tenets of American life - that any child can grow up to be the President?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

I went to a horrible public school. We were trained to have low expectations, keep our mouths shut, and stay in line. Based on the present conformation of American society, I'd say these lessons were well learned in many places.

Individual teachers, administrators, and philosophers do care about children, but the system's purpose is to create fodder for corporations and cannons. It is a creaky system left over from the first half of the last century when mass society demanded a uniform product of minimum standards. Much like our army we're geared to fighting the last war. Even now the national standards craze further consolidates power and stifles innovation. Our inflexible system is creating inflexible people.

It is true that parents will avoid being responsible for their children no matter what system is in place. The question for me is, who bears ultimate responsibility for children? Euros believe in socialism and public schools are the backbone of that system, unfortunately some of us see that system as another form of slavery.

My experience is different. Public schools were more flexible whereas the private (read Roman Catholic) schools were of the grind 'em down and form them into drones, regimen.

Living in the suburbs, bordering on rural, public school was local and for High School, bussed to the city. They had three High Schools, Classical, Commerce and Trade. The names pretty well describe the schools goals but it worked. Then when it was my turn, my town and the next town, built a regional High School, which I had to attend or go to private(RC) school.

Now instead of three choices with three distinct paths, there was Public/Private school that was college prep or skate. Either you were going to college or they didn't give a shit ....as long as you weren't disruptive. Here's your diploma. You can't support yourself? We're always looking for bus drivers and crossing guards.

A halfway decent system should realize that some students can't or won't go to college, and provide alternatives. But hey, don't blame me....I just pay thousands every year, I have no input.