Guns will protect you from tsunamis.

[Hippikos]

A man who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop in Florida ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.

A statewide manhunt ensued.

The gunman was found hiding in a wooded area with his gun. SWAT team officers fired and hit him 68 times. Asked why they shot him 68 times, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel...:

“That's all the bullets we had.”

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Look, the guys that wrote the Constitution said the government shouldn't mess with a citizens weapons. They wrote that, thinking rifles, shotguns, pistols and maybe spears or tomahawks. I doubt they even considered canons. Since that time there has been a steady advance in the technology of those weapons, but so what? they are still what the guys were referring to.

Now, along with the technological advance, in Joe Citizen's weapons, there has been a tremendous, exponential even, increase in the different types of weapons invented, right up to nuke tipped missiles. Virtually none of these were ever intended for Joe Citizen, nor would he have a use for them, other than bragging rights...or drinkin' beer and blowin' shit up. That's why there are laws preventing Joe and his buddies from having those weapons, and I think that's a good idea.

The rub comes when the people that think Joe shouldn't have any weapons, try to use those laws prohibiting that serious stuff as proof they have a right to take all Joe's shit, too. They try to make Joe look like a nut case by forcing him to defend the right to own an atomic bomb.....that he doesn't want anyway. He just wants his own stuff, like the Constitution says he can.

Now anybody with half a god damn brain knows what the Constitution framers were talking about. No cutesy dancing about is going to change that, or the Constitutional guarantees it gives Joe, no matter how many times they invoke, it's for the god damn children.

Actually, during that time, it was not unusual at all for private citizens on the coast to own cannons to protect their private coastlines & that law clearly included them as well.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

I thought that was bleeding obvious, unless you have a large canon in front of your head.

While my Webster's Third does give canon as a variant spelling of "cannon," I'd advise against such use, as this spelling calls up for most people "One of the clergy of a medieval cathedral or large church living as a community under a rule" or "A clergyman belonging to the chapter or the staff of a cathedral or collegiate church." No doubt wearing an Army serplice...

And the precedent set by the acknowledgement (it isn't a granting -- read the text and you'll see that the right to keep and bear arms inheres in one's condition as a human being is assumed) that free humans should have killing tools at their private disposal, that private persons should be equipped comparably to the best armies of the time, is a very strong one.

It's all the stronger in that this is the one known remedy to genocides; the state is no bulwark against this kind of mass crime as it takes the state to enable it -- one state may punish another for having done it, but that's too late to prevent it or cure it. No state has successfully impeded a genocide in another state.

If you oppose death penalties, presumably by deeming them too likely to be wrongful, you'd oppose death as a penalty for being in an unpopular group, too. Thereby, you'd be interested in the known means of preventing that.

[Trilby]

[QUOTE/Hippikos]A man who got pulled over in a routine traffic stop in Florida ended up "executing" the deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times, including once behind his right ear at close range. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed.

A statewide manhunt ensued.

The gunman was found hiding in a wooded area with his gun. SWAT team officers fired and hit him 68 times. Asked why they shot him 68 times, Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel...:

“That's all the bullets we had.”[quote]

That's a pretty cool story.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

While my Webster's Third does give canon as a variant spelling of "cannon," I'd advise against such use, as this spelling calls up for most people "One of the clergy of a medieval cathedral or large church living as a community under a rule" or "A clergyman belonging to the chapter or the staff of a cathedral or collegiate church." No doubt wearing an Army serplice...

If you play Pachabel's Canon loud enough and long enough, it's really pretty effective, although I really prefer Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance for really deadly boring action.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Actually, during that time, it was not unusual at all for private citizens on the coast to own cannons to protect their private coastlines & that law clearly included them as well.

Prior to 1776, cannons, privately owned by individuals, not communities or settlements, were rare as hen's teeth. They were too expensive to acquire and shoot (used a lot of powder), for most individuals to afford. Yes, they were legal, everything was legal until technology upped the ante.

As rifles and side arms improved, the people that could afford them, kept pace. It wasn't until weapons were developed for killing buildings and tanks, that private citizens didn't have a legitimate application for, that the government said whoa, Nellie. The people don't need this shit and could do a hell of a lot of bad things, even accidentally, with it. They figured it probably wasn't a good idea for you to be able to run down to the hardware store and pick up a gun that would shoot the door off a bank vault.

I'm hard pressed to come up with an occasion where I'd need anything bigger than a .5 bore. Defend myself from the government's military? When they can drop a nuke on me from half way around the world? No way.

Come to think of it, I wonder how many people with small arsenals like mine, are deluded into thinking that's all that's necessary to keep them safe from the government. That's nonsense, the ONLY thing that will protect us from the government, is an active, vigilant, voting public.
Guns only work against thugs, criminals and bullies, individually or very small groups.

[Undertoad]

Guns do work to curb government power B. Whatever law they pass still requires an agent of the government to enforce it. That means somebody is put in mortal danger. That in turn explains why the IRS does almost all its business via the US Mail.

I brought up alcohol prohibition earlier, "revenuers" who got their ass shot full of buckshot and the backyard distillers who would load up without fear, were part of the equation.

[yesman065]

Well written Bruce - as usual, much better than I did in about 20 attempts.

[Hippikos]

While my Webster's Third does give canon as a variant spelling of "cannon," I'd advise against such use, as this spelling calls up for most people "One of the clergy of a medieval cathedral or large church living as a community under a rule" or "A clergyman belonging to the chapter or the staff of a cathedral or collegiate church." No doubt wearing an Army serplice...

Well UG, I'm deeply sorry for my spelling faults, English not being my native tongue I'm afraid that can happen. Of course I can response in Dutch, Deutsch or Francais, but I'm afraid you won't be able to follow that, so excuse my past, present and future grammar and syntax errors. Maybe you want me to add a disclaimer the next time?

If you play Pachabel's Canon loud enough and long enough, it's really pretty effective, although I really prefer Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance for really deadly boring action.

Crying Wolf again?

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by wolf

If you play Pachabel's Canon loud enough and long enough, it's really pretty effective, although I really prefer Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance for really deadly boring action.

[yesman065]

Regarding spelling and grammatical mistakes, I have some type of web spellcheck at home, but not at work, so they do seem to slip through when I'm on there - no biggie. I got your point.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Guns only work against thugs, criminals and bullies, individually or very small groups.

When used collectively, they can repel or disrupt an invading army; domestic or foreign as we have been finding out.

[Hippikos]

Originally Posted by yesman065

Regarding spelling and grammatical mistakes, I have some type of web spellcheck at home, but not at work, so they do seem to slip through when I'm on there - no biggie. I got your point.

Grammar Nazis live in any forum, you have to live with it like with other vermin.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Prior to 1776, cannons, privately owned by individuals, not communities or settlements, were rare as hen's teeth. They were too expensive to acquire and shoot (used a lot of powder), for most individuals to afford. Yes, they were legal, everything was legal until technology upped the ante.

As rifles and side arms improved, the people that could afford them, kept pace. It wasn't until weapons were developed for killing buildings and tanks, that private citizens didn't have a legitimate application for, that the government said whoa, Nellie. The people don't need this shit and could do a hell of a lot of bad things, even accidentally, with it. They figured it probably wasn't a good idea for you to be able to run down to the hardware store and pick up a gun that would shoot the door off a bank vault.

I'm hard pressed to come up with an occasion where I'd need anything bigger than a .5 bore. Defend myself from the government's military? When they can drop a nuke on me from half way around the world? No way.

Come to think of it, I wonder how many people with small arsenals like mine, are deluded into thinking that's all that's necessary to keep them safe from the government. That's nonsense, the ONLY thing that will protect us from the government, is an active, vigilant, voting public.
Guns only work against thugs, criminals and bullies, individually or very small groups.

There is no larger bully/thug/criminal group than the US government.