hate speech vs. political speech

[wolf]

Originally posted by slang



But, that was back in the "bad ol'days". They say, ya gotta get it out of your system. I'm glad it's out.

So basically what you're saying is that you still do those things, but you're not piss drunk anymore?

[slang]

Originally posted by wolf


So basically what you're saying is that you still do those things, but you're not piss drunk anymore?

<IMG src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys/7.gif"> You aren't watching me right now...are you?

[wolf]

heh heh heh ...

[Cairo]

Hi guys,
In my opinion, Tom Dashcle's mind works like this:

Conservative talk radio = Record high Republican turn out in 2002, therefore, Conservative talk radio = enemy...
If Dashcle was truthfully threatened in any way, he would call the police.
If Dashcle was trying to discredit the enemy, he
would call a press conference.

I've seen more instances of Conservative talk radio
spurring the Liberal crazies into action(ie: Dashcle as case in point) because they get upset,
but won't stop listening. In France, it was the other way around with their Liberal media spurring a fascist to action. I believe it spurs the opposition.

Bill O'Reilly is down the middle, because on some issues he aggravates Liberals and on some issues he aggravates Conservatives. He goes with his own researched opinion.
I watch Fox, MSNBC, and BBC.

[elSicomoro]

Wait a minute...some of this looks eerily similar...

<LI>piss drunk</LI>
<LI>riding in pick up trucks and rusted-out hot rods</LI>
<LI>with little if any exhaust system</LI>
<LI>traveling way too fast</LI>
<LI>down curvy MO and IL backroads</LI>
<LI>between the hours of midnight and 4am</LI>
<LI>almost hitting deer</LI>

Scary.

[SteveDallas]

I agree, Daschle is whining. This is America, dammit. Fight speech with speech.

I find most political talk shows obnoxious. I generally disagree with the hosts, especially the most conservative ones, but that's not why I find the shows obnoxious. What bugs me is usually the callers, who often display a shocking amount of ignorance. I can't stand to listen to that.

But I mostly listen when I'm in the car, and I really can't stand any kind of serious discussion during my commute. I need to be entertained. It's a shame that doesn't seem to be a value that's prized on radio these days. I used to like the Kent Voss show on WWDB in Philadelphia, before they changed format. He was my all-time favorite: no serious issues, but with some intelligence and wit. Now I'm usually reduced to Don & Mike for my drive home when I don't have a CD along I feel like listening to. I've actually been tempted by XM satellite radio, but I don't know if their stuff is any better.

[slang]

Originally posted by sycamore
Wait a minute...some of this looks eerily similar...

<LI>piss drunk</LI>
<LI>riding in pick up trucks and rusted-out hot rods</LI>
<LI>with little if any exhaust system</LI>
<LI>traveling way too fast</LI>
<LI>down curvy MO and IL backroads</LI>
<LI>between the hours of midnight and 4am</LI>
<LI>almost hitting deer</LI>

Scary.

Out of all of those things listed, the only things I still do is stay up late. Ok, and occasionally shine the spotlight in the neighbor's window....from the roof.

The rest of all that I dont miss at all

[slang]

Originally posted by kbarger
I agree, Daschle is whining. This is America, dammit. Fight speech with speech.

I find most political talk shows obnoxious.

Many are just looking to be controversial, yes. The "local" UNsydicated shows are the worst. There are only a few that I stop everything and listen to , most of the time I may catch something that they say as funny. About half that I hear parts of are just background.

I generally disagree with the hosts, especially the most conservative ones, but that's not why I find the shows obnoxious. What bugs me is usually the callers, who often display a shocking amount of ignorance. I can't stand to listen to that.

That's a good point. If the host doesn't have a big enough listenership, the calls suck. If the host has an ego the size of Texas they suk too. Many will not engage is real debate on the air, it's risky.

But I mostly listen when I'm in the car, and I really can't stand any kind of serious discussion during my commute. I need to be entertained. It's a shame that doesn't seem to be a value that's prized on radio these days. I used to like the Kent Voss show on WWDB in Philadelphia, before they changed format.

I was there in '89 and listened to WWDB a lot. Irv Homer was on the air then and was my favorite. There were some lesser known shows too but except for the weekends I enjoyed it very much. The signal was FM too, very rare, great reception.

I've actually been tempted by XM satellite radio, but I don't know if their stuff is any better.

The programming probably isn't any better. The reception has to be, or no one would subscribe.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by kbarger
Now I'm usually reduced to Don & Mike for my drive home when I don't have a CD along I feel like listening to. I've actually been tempted by XM satellite radio, but I don't know if their stuff is any better.

From what I've heard, it's not too bad...it's gotta beat Don & Mike. My brother has XM, but he doesn't listen to talk radio.

The only personality I know that is on XM is Joe Madison, who is also on WOL-AM in Washington...he's kinda like Tavis Smiley on NPR.

[slang]

Originally posted by sycamore
Not the liberal types though...remember, most of them don't like guns.

I wonder what news channel Uncle Ted used to watch, you know, before he left orbit. He didn't use guns but was a definite left wing whacko that used bombs.

I'll bet he was a Dan Rather fan.

He even kinda looks<a href="http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/slang324/vwp?.dir=/&.dnm=ted+k.jpg&.src=bc&.view=l&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/slang324/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=bc%26.view=l"> like Dan.</a>

[slang]

Originally posted by Cairo
Hi guys,
In my opinion, Tom Daschle's mind works like this:
Conservative talk radio = Record high Republican turn out in 2002, therefore, Conservative talk radio = enemy...
If Daschle was truthfully threatened in any way, he would call the police. If Daschle was trying to discredit the enemy, he
would call a press conference.

<a href="http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_112702/content/blank.guest.html">Take a look at this.</a> I listen to Rush and I have for years. He's an arrogant bastard, but I think correct again on this issue.

And , Daschle did hold a press conference and all but accused talk radio of encouraging threats to him and his family. He also carefully worded a few <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,71429,00.html">statements to imply</a> that talk radio was as evil as al Qeada.

"We see it in foreign countries and we think, 'Well, my God, how can this religious fundamentalism become so violent?'" he said. "Well, it's that same shrill rhetoric, it's that same shrill power that motivates."

I think this comparison is a stretch. Our talk radio motivated us to get the hell out there and vote.

"Islamic religious fundamentalism", motivated it's members to fly planes into buildings.

Daschle's not happy with the loss of the Senate, I understand that. This is exactly the type of rhetoric that helped him to lose it in the first place.

Maybe the Democrats will be honest enough with themselves to make changes that will help them.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by Cairo
I believe it spurs the opposition.

I think that has a good degree of truth. I got really involved in politics after Clinton was elected the first time.

[Undertoad]

I think Daschle was right and wrong at the same time. Here's my novel on the topic, sorry.

To really understand Rush's show, you have to be an outsider. The show claims it's speaking to the masses, but it isn't. It's speaking to a very well-understood, reliable audience of 15 million people who basically agree with Rush and enjoy hearing evangelism.

In that group are a very small set of whack jobs. Just like there is a similar set of whack jobs in the equivalent group of lefties.

Rush's show involves a lot of demonizing the opposition.
Evangelize and demonize for a long enough time, to the whack jobs, and a small percentage will eventually flip out and try to change things on their own. Call it probability, call it chaos theory, whatever.

I've seen it; we had a dude in the PA LP who was clearly unstable, and it surprised nobody when eventually one morning he woke up, armed himself, shot up a utility truck and drove it towards DC with the intent to kill Clinton (until a moment of sanity came back into his head, and he surrendered, naked, to the cops).

So yes, Rush's ranting does produce more death threats for Daschle. (I wager you ten packets of weaponized anthrax.)

But here's where Daschle went wrong: he has no room to talk. "Evil" evangelism is just as likely to be found on the left. The Bush administration isn't delaying implementation of a questionable clean water regulation, it's poisoning people with auto-immune problems. It isn't trying to solve the Social Security system's eventual bankruptcy, it's stealing the life savings of grandmothers.

Both sides need to make strong arguments like that, partly because they need to invent stronger differences between the parties when the differences are smaller than you'd think. In marketing, that's called "product differentiation". If you think there IS a very big difference between the parties, you have successfully been convinced by the marketing. (Around here we measure results by results, not by one side's description of them.)

But they also both need to do that because it's vitally important that the hard edges of the parties are highly motivated. If you think the opposition is "delaying policy implementation" -- well, so what. But if they're "poisoning people" -- OMG, we must take volunteer positions with the campaign, to save gramma from the evil mean men!

Leftist evangelism can produce the same kind of results, too. It's helpful to remember that (theoretically rightist) Tim McVeigh shared prison space with the (theoretically leftist) Unabomber.

So when one side is complaining about it, I say that's hypocracy. If Daschle wanted to elevate the debate, he had plenty of opportunity to do so. Instead he played the usual politics just like all his predecessors.

[elSicomoro]

Slang, Irv Homer is still on...WBCB-AM 1490 I believe...you can listen to it over the 'net.

Rush seems to be softening up a bit...maybe it's because the Republicans have 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW again. Or...

*conspiracy theory* Rush has been going deaf apparently for several years. Folks got pissed off b/c they think he may not have been listening to them all these years. He lost fans, and so had to reach out to the mods.

Tob, wasn't that his family's house (which housed DPS) that they razed in constructing the new business building at Southeast?

UT, I dig what you're saying. However, I don't know if you can hold the talk radio hosts culpable for the actions of nut jobs (that is, if there were some sort of concrete connection between someone listening to Rush, and then going after Dick Gephardt, for example). To me, that would be like holding KMFDM and Marilyn Manson partially responsible for Columbine.

[Undertoad]

Yeah, not responsible, not responsible at all. But a minor catalyst -- I just wouldn't be surprised.