Why does America need Secret Prisons?

[Undertoad]

Not sure I'm in favor of it, but it does appear to actually work and work well, violating the Cellar's notion that torture is ineffective.
The Case for Waterboarding

Take, for instance, the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed captured in Pakistan in March of 2003. One of the masterminds of 9/11 and al-Qaeda’s operational leader at the time, he possessed a wide-ranging knowledge of the network’s plans, logistics and personnel. Unwilling to share it voluntarily, he was subjected to forced interrogation. As resilient as he was and defiant, he held out until the interrogators decided to proceed with waterboarding. Two and a half minutes into the procedure, a broken Mohammed begged for relief. Stunned and shaken, his extensive confession amounted to nothing less than a treasure trove of priceless intelligence.

This case is unusual not in how quickly the waterboarding worked, but how long Mohammed was able to withstand it. Two and a half minutes is by all accounts a record of sorts, as most subjects usually break down inside a minute. CIA agents who undergo this procedure as part of their training rarely last more than 40 seconds. This despite the fact that they are in a friendly environment and know that death is not an option.

Although waterboarding is normally employed as the last resort and the frequency of its use kept secret, it has been made known that so far it has worked every time it has been tried. Thanks to its extraordinary efficacy, we have been able to obtain a great amount of critical intelligence that would have otherwise remained inaccessible. With the help of this information we have captured al-Qaeda operatives, stopped deadly plots, and saved many innocent lives. One of the fruits of Mohammed’s confession, to give one example, was the thwarting of a conspiracy to fly an airliner into the Library Tower, the tallest building in Los Angeles.

Given these facts, it is almost incomprehensible that there are some people in this country who insist that we relinquish this life-saving tool. Resting their objections on ethical grounds, they try to convince us that the procedure is morally unacceptable. But theirs is a misguided stance, since careful consideration shows that waterboarding is in fact one of the least injurious among interrogation techniques.

[xoxoxoBruce]

If waterboarding leaves no discernible damage, it can't be proven it was used.
How does anyone know they haven't passed legislation to improve national image and still use it behind closed doors?
There doesn't seem to be a lot of equipment, space or personnel needed, so denial is plausible.

Just saying, ya know.

[richlevy]

Of course what happens when you use waterboarding on someone who really doesn't know anything, and at what point do you believe them and stop it?

I think a lot of people who travel abroad in countries with below par civil rights have at some point thought about what would happen if they were falsely accused of a serious crime there. Movies from Midnight Express to Red Square have played up this scenario (yes in Midnight Express the guy was guility). We have already executed Mexican citizens in the US without allowing them to contact their consulate.

If we allow waterboarding of prisoners, we are stating that for certain heinous crimes it is allowable. We might limit it to unlawful combatants, but by allowing it we are declaring it a legitimate interrogation tool.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Not sure I'm in favor of it, but it does appear to actually work and work well,

What they forget to mention (lies by telling half truths) is that he told so many myths and lies as to make the intelligence useless. All those Orange alerts did what? Nothing but prove how much useless information comes from torture.

Why was Nasir Abbas so useful? He told accurate facts. He was not tortured. As professionals note, when they are not tortured, then they immediately suspect their 'leaders' were lying. After all, only satanists torture. Americans that do not torture? How can this be when our glorious leader told us Americans always torture? Notice what professionals have been saying in direct contradiction to a lying wacko president. George Jr said torture is good? That alone raises red flags everywhere.

It amazes me how many 'big dics' in the auto industry insisted more crappy products out an assembly line is also good. Did not matter how poor it was just as long as product flowed. Same 'big dic' reasoning applied to intelligence. More talk is important - usefulness is somebody else’s problem. As professional interrogators state - and what 'big dics' hope a head between legs does not learn - quality and accuracy of that intelligence saves lives. That head between legs does not care 'why'. It only cares about feelings - reality be damned. Torture is justified only by feelings.

'Big dics' repeatedly insist that lives are saved by getting them to talk. Same mentality justified more crap from assembly lines. No difference. Quality is Job #1 - if we want to save lives. Those who have anti-American and wacko extremist politics advocate torture only because they 'feel' that it must work. Reality and logic be damned.

Torture is advocated by same who strongly insisted Saddam had WMDs - even long after the lies had been exposed. A damming coincidence, or a question about political agendas replacing logic? Many who advocate torture also were quick to believe lies about Saddam and WMDs. Obvious and scary is why this statement is more than a Monty Python joke: "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition".

Call it morality if you like. I call it using intelligence – first learning from professionals. Torture is advocated in direct contradiction to facts. Extremist hope you don't learn how useless the intelligence was from torture. Are lessons from Abu Ghriad that quickly forgotten? Is the threat of Nazism (or Christian extremism) so real in America that some would even approve of torture? Torture only saves lives when 'big dic' rationalizations (ie Saddam's WMDs) are quickly accepted as fact. No different than what promoted Hitler to power. Hitler needed only those who never ask embarrassing questions (Brown Shirts) - and who also believed in torture. I've just ask another embarrassing question. Why are those who believed George Jr lies about WMDs also advocating torture? Why has America become this scary? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management - and to people we will vote for on 7 November.