Why does America need Secret Prisons?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by BigV

Why does America need Secret Prisons?

Seriously, why?

I don't see how this can be positive, or even a net positive. Why "Secret"? Ok, the "secret" is out, for the ones we know about [/cynic - realist]. The only reason I can come up with is so that the operations of such a prison are carried out beyond the easy reach of American law. What the Fuck? We have American citizens, soldiers, government officials setup for the express purpose of doing things that would be illegal in our own country. Are you kidding me?

I've thought long and hard about this. I have not been able to resolve this conflict. I see circumstances where it appears to be justifiable--we need the information they have and the only way to get that information is to use techniques that aren't legal inside the US.

But doesn't that make us less? Are we not a nation of laws? And now the newest detainee bill is designed to codify, to make legal what was not legal before. Nyah nyah, you can't sue me, the prez says so.

So somebody explain to me why we need these secret prisons in foreign lands, please. And why do we need this detainee bill protecting interrogators from legal action if this all happens outside of our legal sphere anyway? The whole tautalogical mess stinks. Either make the actions legal and move them *here*. What's to fear? Or, keep the actions *there* and remain unrestricted by the bounds of American laws.

I feel your conflictedness, if that's a word.

If we apply American laws while we're in other countries, I wouldn't be able to go to Amsterdam and smoke weed with my hookers.

As the "good guys", we shouldn't break the Golden Rule - just goes to show you how Christian W actually is. We should LEAD the world as a role model. We should be able to respond with righteous indignation when our military personnel are mistreated. Instead, we lower ourselves and invite enemies to torture our people.

Experts in information collection have said that information gathered through torture is unreliable. I guess this administration disagrees. They seem to have their own expert opinions about so many things. Just as they were dead-on with their assessment that Iraqis would welcome us as liberators, they may be just as accurate when it comes to the information tortured out of people.

So, why secret prisons in other countries?

To hide the facts from the American people. Oops. The W administration knew that this behavior would be opposed by most Americans, and considered to be outside the law, but they wanted to do it anyway.

They have little regard for laws and the US Constitution.

If found out, they thought they would have plausible deniability. Oops. I guess they miscalculated there, too.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

big snip of valid thoughts ~To hide the facts from the American people. ~ snip more valid thoughts

Only from the misguided lefties, that feel everyone should be treated fairly as human beings and accorded the equal treatment that damn meddling constitution suggests.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Only from the misguided lefties, that feel everyone should be treated fairly as human beings and accorded the equal treatment

Torture makes enemies. Torture resulted in lies after lies about "Orange Alert" attacks even on Newark's Prudential Buildling and San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge. Professional interrogators say opposite of what 'big dics' insist. Useful intelligence is obtained by NOT using torture. Anyone with minimal intelligence instead of 'big dic' solution would know that.

A recent example of how 'no torture' does so much. Originally broadcast on 13 Sept 2006 on BBC 2 radio:

The jihadi who turned 'supergrass'
As [Nasir Abbas] was taken off for interrogation, he feared the worst.

"I believed that the police were very cruel and used torture to get their answers," he said.

But Mr Abbas was in for a surprise. He was treated with civility and Muslim respect.

He was also surprised that so much was known about him and was puzzled as to how his interrogators knew.

He was arrested one evening and kept silent until the following morning.

Then he decided to talk and help the police, because he thought it was God's will.

He said he felt "responsible, in front of God, to stop all these bad deeds."

From that point on, Mr Abbas tried to persuade his former comrades that their interpretation of the Koran was wrong.

He urges them to "return to the right path of Islamic teaching."

But he did much more than that.

He actively assisted the police in tracking down and arresting some of his former comrades and felt no guilt in doing so.

They tortured to the point of killing people and still could not find those weapons of mass destruction. But the ignorant still insist that torture is good. Good for masterbation - where torture is justified. Bad for preventing future terrorist attacks.

Any idiot knows that torture and human rights violations don't do anything useful.