Hezbollah night-vision gear manufactured in Britain

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

So, history starts in 1947? Before that it's a black hole? Even in 1947 the Jews were in minority (third of the population).

The Jews were in the majority of the land partitioned to Israel by the UN.

The official UN estimate was 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs (a number that included Christians, Bedouins, Druze, and others).

The planning of colonisation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine originated already before the Holocaust. Herzl and the "Der Judenstat", remember?

I'm sorry, when you say "Palestine", are you referring to British land which they intended as a Jewish homeland?

Originally Posted by Arthur J. Balfour

Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour

Sure, in hindsight, one might say that was a huge mistake. Personally, I think it would have been a better outcome if ALL the European Jews decided to move there in 1917. See, if they had only done that, they would still have a chance at being alive in 1947. Unfortunately they faced pogroms in Palestine so I'm sure many Jews weren't convinced it was safe.

People might compare your map with this one. This map is 1947, yours begins in 1948. The difference was a war, in which the side that started the war lost.



People might notice how the orange areas coincide with the blue areas on your map.

Does history begin in 1947? No it sure doesn't; nor in 1917, nor 1948, nor 1967. We can go back further to how the whole concept of colonization no longer worked in the 20th century, and how the world had to wreak havoc for a while to settle on what it is now, and how this is the last vestage of that old problem.

But the best thing for all concerned would be if they would just sit down and shut the fuck up. All the land Israel has gained since the orange areas on that map are due to initially-defensive wars. The land Israel has gained has been the land from which they were attacked. If the Arabs would have sat down and shut up in 1947, they would have not only a state but a huge and great one. Instead they have been used, over and over again.

[richlevy]

Basically, the British screwed up in Israel and Kashmir by leaving things half-done. The UN had to finish up in Palestine. The India/Pakistan split worked out much better, and occurred a few months before the Palestine partition.

The Arab League had the chance to accept the partition at that time, and had the example of Pakistan, but decided to refuse.

[Hippikos]

The Jews were in the majority of the land partitioned to Israel by the UN.

The official UN estimate was 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs (a number that included Christians, Bedouins, Druze, and others).

Palestine was inhabited by 2/3 Arabs and 1/3 Jews at the time of the division. Which btw was rejected by the Brits. Israel has declared the State of Israel unilaterally as it has always imposed all new borders, unilaterally.

I'm sorry, when you say "Palestine", are you referring to British land which they intended as a Jewish homeland?

The Zionist movement knew where to concentrate their lobby Weizmann having close ties to Lloyd George and Balfour. Given this context then, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 can be seen as an effective tool for Britain to serve multiple ends. Seen through British eyes and from the perspective of late 1917, it would serve as a powerful propaganda tool aimed at the world’s Jewish community in hopes of securing additional financial support – cash contributions, loans, grants - to fill the depleted coffers of the Allied governments. Secondly, it would effectively preempt Germany’s ongoing efforts to enlist both informal and formal support from the Zionist movement. In a very real sense whichever side issued such a declaration first would effectively preclude any positive impact of the other side's efforts.

Unfortunately they faced pogroms in Palestine so I'm sure many Jews weren't convinced it was safe.

Palestine was not safe for nobody. Jews were never shy to use terrorism to obtain their goal. Neither Brits nor Arabs were save for their terrorism. Google on Irgun, Hagganah, Stern Gang and you'll find some interesting names.

Whatever year is used, fact is that hundreds of thousands Palestines whos families lived there were ethnic cleansed, exiled, prisoned and live in reservates with no future, just for living here.

If the Arabs would have sat down and shut up in 1947,

I asked before and I ask again, would YOU have shut up if your house was confiscated?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Hippikos

Palestine was inhabited by 2/3 Arabs and 1/3 Jews at the time of the division.

And again, the portion allotted to Israel was majority Jews.

Israel has declared the State of Israel unilaterally as it has always imposed all new borders, unilaterally.

Where "unilaterally" means "for defensive purposes, took the land via which they were attacked in a war, without asking the attackers their preference."

The withdrawl from Gaza was unilateral in the more traditional sense of the term. Unilateral Israeli withdrawl? That REALLY doesn't match your worldview, so you can't even see it, can you?

I asked before and I ask again, would YOU have shut up if your house was confiscated?

"...and that's why international terrorism is justified."