Where are the militant secularists? (or where are the heirs to Pim Fortuyn)

[jaguar]

well this hasn't quite sparked the debate I was hoping for, did I fart or something?

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by jaguar

well this hasn't quite sparked the debate I was hoping for, did I fart or something?

I think there's been a largish influx of liberals^h^h^h^h^h^ progressives in your absence...and many of them are busy stroking each other elsewhere in the fora.

There's also been a lot more volume, which dilutes people's attention.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by jaguar

well this hasn't quite sparked the debate I was hoping for, did I fart or something?

You posed about the hardest question possible. My values are an amalgalm of culture, religion, and philosophy chosen consciously and unconsciously over a life-time with shifting barriers about what is acceptable behavior. If we don't allow people this flexibility as a society we are no longer Western. If we allow people to exercise primitive tribal values we are no longer Western. Law should be where the line is drawn but too much law leads to an unfree anti-Western society because an over-lawyered society is essentially lawless.

It isn't solvable with immigration controls that choose only the educated, as those are the very people whose values shifted back to the tribal after living among us. If we halt all immigration we die as a society. We're better off in the US since Mexican culture is not as far from the norm as Arab culture is from Europes norm. Europes troubles are much more intense, I'm watching them as a Romanized German watched Rome fall. The question is how far will they fall and will some cultural force pick up the pieces?