Are you kidding me?

[euchrid]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

If a parent is willing to pay attention to a kid and anticipate kid's needs they can head off tantrums when they are at the butterfly flapping its wings in south america stage.

The above statement is total balls.

I, too, am blessed with the demonic entity known as a two-year old child, and she is also very well behaved. My partner and I are calm, gentle, and stop most tantrums before they happen. But every now and again, we have to make her do something that she does not want to do. Sometimes, it's getting on a bus, or standing in a queue. Sometimes, it's when she's tired. You can anticipate your kid's needs all you want, but sometimes you're in a place that you don't want to be in either, and you wish you could throw a tantrum as well. Sometimes, life isn't that ordered.

However, there are some parents who make the whole thing worse. As a parent, I find little in the urban environment more irritating than other parents who take up all the space, push in queues, or hit you (or your kid) with their oversized pram/pushchair. My partner and I have managed to raise our child from birth to two and a half without carrying fourteen bags, 75% of the time without a pushchair or supersized backpack, without a car, and with hardly any money. Some parents are just selfish and they raise selfish kids to fuel a selfish society.

What we need is a program of Total Sterilisation, where nobody can have a child without submitting a lengthy proprosal and set of documents proving how capable they will be of raising a healthy, intelligent child, which will then allow them to have the sterilisation reversed. (That was supposed to be a joke, but I'm kind of warming to the idea now I look at it again).

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by euchrid

The above statement is total balls.

I, too, am blessed with the demonic entity known as a two-year old child, and she is also very well behaved. My partner and I are calm, gentle, and stop most tantrums before they happen. But every now and again, we have to make her do something that she does not want to do. Sometimes, it's getting on a bus, or standing in a queue. Sometimes, it's when she's tired. You can anticipate your kid's needs all you want, but sometimes you're in a place that you don't want to be in either, and you wish you could throw a tantrum as well. Sometimes, life isn't that ordered.

However, there are some parents who make the whole thing worse. As a parent, I find little in the urban environment more irritating than other parents who take up all the space, push in queues, or hit you (or your kid) with their oversized pram/pushchair. My partner and I have managed to raise our child from birth to two and a half without carrying fourteen bags, 75% of the time without a pushchair or supersized backpack, without a car, and with hardly any money. Some parents are just selfish and they raise selfish kids to fuel a selfish society.

What we need is a program of Total Sterilisation, where nobody can have a child without submitting a lengthy proprosal and set of documents proving how capable they will be of raising a healthy, intelligent child, which will then allow them to have the sterilisation reversed. (That was supposed to be a joke, but I'm kind of warming to the idea now I look at it again).

I'm sure you are joking when you refer to your 2 year old as a demonic entity, and it can be fun to play the suffering parent card, but it underlies a truth in many cases about the inconvenience of having a child. If that is one's position. I've never felt that inch3 was a demon in any way. He's a two year old and like all two year olds he knows he is completely dependant upon us for his survival, yet at the same time, would like to excercise a little taste of control over his world. Not so much that he feels he is driving the runaway train, but not so little that he can't have his juice in a blue cup either.

As for making them do things they don't want to do that is a big challenge to your creativity. It is the hardest thing for me to remember that children don't have reasoning faculties like adults, supposedly our ability to reason isn't fully developed until we are in our 20's. (think about it, probably true) My wife is always reminding me the "keep the magic alive". I forget he is in a very different world from me where puddles are rivers with huge boats floating on them and cranes that can *SMASH!!!* etc. Me telling him not to walk in puddles w/o his puddle boots is yanking him away from that fantasy. I guess he doesn't like that all that well, much as I don't like being yanked out of my Cate Blanchett reveries by being asked to take out the trash.

One thing that has worked for us, which may be coincidence and may not work for everyone, is that we really kept the direction of the inch3 to a minimum. I figured the less he heard "don't do this, do that, etc" the more likely he'd be to listen to us when we meant it. So far it has worked. My wife has a lot more trouble with him than I do, obviously their relationship is different. I think he knows he can get a rise out of her, where he doesn't with me. I just arch my eyebrow and give him the quizzical look and he usually busts out laughing. Unless he's really tired. Then the question is: How could this situation have been prevented? Sometimes, you do get caught in a situation and there's nothing you can do, but I think the groundwork for tantrums is laid long before the event.

I've only got one child and he's never had a tantrum, so I'm far from expert. That's partly the fear of having another, this one has been so easy.
Just so you know, we don't use bribes to get him to behave or cave in to every whim and demand. I see 90% of demands on his part as being petitions for limits. It scares the passengers to think that they are calling the shots. "Yes, that's a nice truck. I love it too, we're going to leave it here in the store." I don't try the "you've got lenty of trucks already" routine that a lot of parents try. That is greek to kids. The other way validates his feeling about the truck, empathizes with him and sets limits.

Sorry aobut going on so long, I don't mean to sound pedagogic, I'm just comparing notes.

One other thing I just recalled, when my wife was doing direct care with these autistic men she said a technique the care givers used to give direction was
1. Verbal (give them a minute to respond, then)
2. Gestural (indicate the thing you want done)
3. Physical (physically assist the person to perform action)

This allows the person a sense of choice apparently. I'm sure a psychologist could explain why it may be effective. In practice it usually goes:
"Inch3 it's time for bath." wait a few moments for it to sink in. Then I point to the tub, and then I chase him around the room screaming and tickling and making tummy farts, and then we have a bath.


Your point about selfish parents and selfish kids reminds me of story a friend of mine told me about a group of tourists who got off this bus in South America to visit a remote village where there happened to be a shaman living. He went up to the people from the bus and greeted them and exhorted them all to "dream a smaller dream"

I look around at all the paraphernalia that most parents get sucked into and I am nauseus at how big some dreams get.

I've often mused about having to pass entrance exams in order to be a parent or get pregnant. but that's another thread.