area flooding

tw · 07-03-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I wasn't sure why you didn't want this flood to be serious, but being that it was the most serious flood in Binghamton since 1935, I suppose it must be your political agenda.

Worse flood than 1972 Agnes? So what changed? Was it really a big flood? Was it created by man (for example in NY that may not install flood control on all new construction)? Or was it really nothing more than the local gossip hyping a story? If the flood in Binghamton was so bad, then why was it a non-event just downriver in Wilkes Barre - that does flood planning since 1972?

I see nothing that justifies all this hype. So I took an all day bike ride up towards Reading - downriver of that big orange spot. Nothing. No serious flooding. Just the usual flood plain soil replenishment and dirt where roads were too low.

If Binghamton had serious flooding, then Binghamton has serious planning and code enforcement problems in and upriver of Binghamton. Sounds like a manmade problem to me.

To repeat a primary point: where problems existed, then the town / region must fix their problems. This was not a Big One. And what I 'want' is not even stated or implied. It was only a serious flood where man has failed to act responsible - and will be worse later if what 'was only a warning' is not heeded. It was not a major news story as we all saw in national news. But then things close to NYC too often get more hype.

Griff · 07-03-2006, 07:41 PM

Every flooded home is by definition a man-made problem. The heaviest rains from Agnes fell mostly South of Binghamton hence the new flood wall construction in WB. I can't find information on river levels to compare. I'm really thrown by the relatively modest amount of measured rain compared to the change in river level, but I think our ground water levels are up since the rain has eased but the river is still quite high.

We do have a strip mall problem East (down stream)of Bing along the river which must have eaten up wetland. Binghamton itself was a land granted swamp originally. I wonder if certain areas are sinking? Broome County NY (Bing), has heavy code enforcement whereas Chenango County NY, has little. What I don't get is new construction in flood prone areas. When I was surveying we did flood elevations for folks looking to qualify for morgages. No elevation = no morgage. However, since they have built highways and malls along the river since the flood of '35 we may have our answer as to how this became a so-called century event, they've altered the flood plain. If this is the case it really isn't Binghamton's fault, since there is rarely new construction in Binghamton proper (shrinking population). We need to look at upstream construction like Conklin.

Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line?

xoxoxoBruce · 07-03-2006, 08:55 PM

The Delaware River went down and now the hard part. Harmony, NJ started washing down the buildings with fire hoses today. The water was up to the red arrow in the second picture.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-04-2006, 02:41 PM

Deposit, NY on the 28th.

lookout123 · 07-04-2006, 03:47 PM

the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events. all cellarites will receive priority clearance.

MsSparkie · 07-04-2006, 03:59 PM

I saw a show about floods once, and they said just imagine how heavy one bucket of water is. Imagine thousands of them pushing you along in a raging flood. The power of nature.

Pie · 07-05-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events.

Naw. You guys just get fires...

lookout123 · 07-05-2006, 10:31 PM

easily solved by keeping ridiculous amounts of vegetation away from your property.

wolf · 07-06-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events. all cellarites will receive priority clearance.

You still have over 100 degree days, right?

I'll take my chances with the water.

lookout123 · 07-06-2006, 01:21 AM

but it's a dry heat...

i played 90 minutes of soccer outside tonight. i couldn't do that in illinois humidity when it was 90.

tw · 07-05-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line?

Found flood stage charts for upriver. The triangles are what are average water flows. After what appears to be a large 1st of June rain, the rivers were just slightly above average - suggesting no ground water saturation at least one week before. Another source (that I cannot find) reports average cubic feet per second for Jun to be about 1300 for Jun which puts water before the rains at average.

Again, the point is that this flooding should not have been as bad as the news wanted it to be. And where flooding was a problem, those areas better get cracking at opening up the flood plain - moving people like Clinton did for Grafton IL.

Griff · 07-06-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Found flood stage charts for upriver. The triangles are what are average water flows. After what appears to be a large 1st of June rain, the rivers were just slightly above average - suggesting no ground water saturation at least one week before. Another source (that I cannot find) reports average cubic feet per second for Jun to be about 1300 for Jun which puts water before the rains at average.

Again, the point is that this flooding should not have been as bad as the news wanted it to be. And where flooding was a problem, those areas better get cracking at opening up the flood plain - moving people like Clinton did for Grafton IL.

Bruce sent me a bunch of these charts, very interesting stuff. What I was thinking of though would be water levels from 1935 and 1972 but I'm guessing the record is fragmented.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-06-2006, 06:39 PM

Water resources

New York State....hover over the dots (all colors) to find out where it is.

For the Chenango River at Greene, this station has only stream height (water level) but check the "Available data for this site" menu for historical data and other information.

For the Susquehanna River at Conklin, there is stream height and discharge as well as "Available Data" menu.

Don't forget the Susquehanna starts in NY state, swings through northeast PA, back into NY, then south the full height of PA into MD. So, you'll have to check the PA map also to see where the bulk of the water entered the Susquehanna before in got to Binghamton.
The Chenango dumps into the Susquehanna in Binghamton so the NY map would show some of the large feeder streams of the Chenango.

Have fun.

Griff · 07-07-2006, 06:12 AM

[whine]but I have work to do[/whine]

xoxoxoBruce · 07-07-2006, 11:05 PM

That's why I would never give you an order...only opportunity.

07-03-2006, 07:41 PM	#2
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Every flooded home is by definition a man-made problem. The heaviest rains from Agnes fell mostly South of Binghamton hence the new flood wall construction in WB. I can't find information on river levels to compare. I'm really thrown by the relatively modest amount of measured rain compared to the change in river level, but I think our ground water levels are up since the rain has eased but the river is still quite high. We do have a strip mall problem East (down stream)of Bing along the river which must have eaten up wetland. Binghamton itself was a land granted swamp originally. I wonder if certain areas are sinking? Broome County NY (Bing), has heavy code enforcement whereas Chenango County NY, has little. What I don't get is new construction in flood prone areas. When I was surveying we did flood elevations for folks looking to qualify for morgages. No elevation = no morgage. However, since they have built highways and malls along the river since the flood of '35 we may have our answer as to how this became a so-called century event, they've altered the flood plain. If this is the case it really isn't Binghamton's fault, since there is rarely new construction in Binghamton proper (shrinking population). We need to look at upstream construction like Conklin. Any idea where we can find historical river level data on-line? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-03-2006, 08:55 PM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The Delaware River went down and now the hard part. Harmony, NJ started washing down the buildings with fire hoses today. The water was up to the red arrow in the second picture. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. Last edited by xoxoxoBruce; 04-07-2007 at 05:51 PM.

07-04-2006, 02:41 PM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Deposit, NY on the 28th. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. Last edited by xoxoxoBruce; 04-07-2007 at 05:51 PM.

07-04-2006, 03:47 PM	#5
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	the good news is that i am personally responsible for interviewing any folks wanting to move to flood free phoenix due to recent events. all cellarites will receive priority clearance. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-04-2006, 03:59 PM	#6
MsSparkie Curious Sagittarius Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 302	I saw a show about floods once, and they said just imagine how heavy one bucket of water is. Imagine thousands of them pushing you along in a raging flood. The power of nature. __________________ ~There is a forest in an acorn......

07-05-2006, 10:31 PM	#8
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	easily solved by keeping ridiculous amounts of vegetation away from your property. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-06-2006, 01:21 AM	#10
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	but it's a dry heat... i played 90 minutes of soccer outside tonight. i couldn't do that in illinois humidity when it was 90. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-06-2006, 06:39 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Water resources New York State....hover over the dots (all colors) to find out where it is. For the Chenango River at Greene, this station has only stream height (water level) but check the "Available data for this site" menu for historical data and other information. For the Susquehanna River at Conklin, there is stream height and discharge as well as "Available Data" menu. Don't forget the Susquehanna starts in NY state, swings through northeast PA, back into NY, then south the full height of PA into MD. So, you'll have to check the PA map also to see where the bulk of the water entered the Susquehanna before in got to Binghamton. The Chenango dumps into the Susquehanna in Binghamton so the NY map would show some of the large feeder streams of the Chenango. Have fun. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-07-2006, 06:12 AM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	[whine]but I have work to do[/whine] __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-07-2006, 11:05 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	That's why I would never give you an order...only opportunity. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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