Immigration

xoB,

It was always BYO-O2 for me. We had transportable tanks and regulator systems with multiple service outlets (O2 console) that we would anchor inside an aircraft for those of us in coach.

It's been interesting to see how this "Immigration" thread has crossed over into aspects of the war on terrorism. It seems that the battle abroad and the battle on the home front are inextricably intertwined by politics.

BTW, many people do not realize that there are US Special Forces (a.k.a. Green Beret) National Guard units. They are specialists in unconventional warfare [including counterinsurgency operations and strategic reconnaissance] and they have already served in Afghanistan. Will they be deployed along the US border? I've previously posted the opinion "...I'm confident we will win the undeclared war on illegals." in another thread. I based my assessment of the situation upon this capability and the impact of the border threat upon our politicians. It was an educated guess: my military service was as an active duty SFer. Here's a handy listing of SF units (past and present) for anyone interested.

[tw]

Originally Posted by NoBoxes

It's been interesting to see how this "Immigration" thread has crossed over into aspects of the war on terrorism. It seems that the battle abroad and the battle on the home front are inextricably intertwined by politics.

It's called spin. There is no war on terrorism. Where are all these terrorists massing on borders waiting to kill Americans? It's called TV fiction - where too many get reality. This hype because a president (actually Karl Rove) knows how to push 'our buttons'. So easy to manipulate those hyped on testosterone and TV shows such as The Unit. Get real.

We have various law enforcement problems. Had the George Jr administration not repeatedly stifled law enforcement, then 11 September would have not happened. But if you finally learn that fact, then the next step is to learn who really was most irresponsible before, on, and after 11 September. So they must hype a lie - spin a war on terrorism. Did we not have a movie with Dustin Hoffman doing the exact same thing that George Jr, el al do? The Mission Accomplished war is nothing more than what Japan did in Pearl Harbor. It has zero - ZERO - to do with terror.

Terrorism is a law enforcement problem. Only part of that problem that required military assistance was Afghanistan. Illegal immigration is a threat to the US? Total nonsense. Nonsense promoted on lies such as "they are all living fat and happy on the social services in Norristown PA". Or that those "illegal immigration channels are perfect avenues for terrorists". These myths so easy to promote when one does not first learn what illegal immigration is about and involves.

War on Terror? Look overseas. Are terrorists entering Europe to attack? Of course not. Even in Europe, attacks are from their own people. Do you forget who Timothy McVeigh was? Karl Rove hopes you forget. If it served Karl Rove's agenda, he also would be promoting riots in France as terrorism. I have no doubt some here then would be posting same. Some post using testosterone as gray matter.

It's nothing more than a law enforcement problem. In the case of illegal immigration, it is a problem created, in part, by silly laws to restrict the number of immigrants, to punish them with forms, waiting lines, and major lawyer bills. It is a problem we have created for ourselves - and then blame others.

There is zero relation between illegal immigration and terrorism - except when they have grabbed your prick to get your attention. By squishing to thoughts together and creating pain, then those who do their thinking there are easily manipulated by this Rush Limbaugh / Karl Rove logic.

Illegal immigration is a problem created by economic perversion in government AND by economics problems created, in part, by those same ridiculous laws. To spin you in circles, they would have you associate fear (hype about terrorism) and illegal immigration.

Get off the silly "war on terrorism" rhetoric. Its a phrase designed only for those who did not first ask some embarrassing questions. An expression they need to get lemmings to blindly follow "glorious leader" .... to hell. Had the George Jr administration done its jobs, then even 11 September would not happen. So instead, a mental midget administration blames CIA, et al.

Do you also believe that lie – a CIA failure? If so, then get down on your prayer carpet, point towards Washington DC, and god's choosen president. They spin. They are experts at spinning lies when too many Americans have a liberal arts, tree hugger, or big bad gun world perspective.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by tw

They are experts at spinning lies when too many Americans have a liberal arts, tree hugger, or big bad gun world perspective.

Wow...that's quite an intersection of sets.

So...that would be everybody but you and Ted Kaczynski, right? :-)

[xoxoxoBruce]

TW, stop telling me illegal immigrants are my, as an American, fault. That's bullshit.
So they live in a hellhole and want a better life. So what? That doesn't give them the right to break our laws no matter how many employers aid and abet them.
They are poor because they can't sell their sugar here? That's not my problem, it's theirs and I'm not responsible for the betterment of any other country.
I have enough trouble with the MBAs giving this one away.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

TW, stop telling me illegal immigrants are my, as an American, fault. That's bullshit.
So they live in a hellhole and want a better life. So what? That doesn't give them the right to break our laws no matter how many employers aid and abet them.
They are poor because they can't sell their sugar here? That's not my problem, it's theirs and I'm not responsible for the betterment of any other country.
I have enough trouble with the MBAs giving this one away.

They cannot sell their sugar because our politicians created that problem. Bullshit is not answering the question: why did virtually the entire world walk out three days early in Cancun blaming the US for unfair trading? Why did they complain that we – using corporate welfare - make many agricultural jobs virtually impossible in Central and South American and Africa? It is their fault that American taxpayers subsidized sugar by 50%. It is their fault that the world's most productive producers of methanol cannot sell to the US? Oh. It’s not our fault that we should freely enrich the rich - at the expense of other nations?

When you are ready to stop denying the Doha round of GAAT, and then we are ready to discuss what has and has not created illegal immigration. They don't live in a hellhole. They live in what could be some of the world’s most productive region for sugar, cotton, methanol, corn, et al ... if America went back to being a free trade nation.

Did they dump sugar on world markets at prices lower than it costs to produce? No. America does that. We do that to enrich selective campaign fund contributors. And no, it is not your problem if you are the rich subsidized agricultural business executive being paid by the US government to pervert world sugar prices. But if you define why a hellhole exists in what could be productive nations, then tell us why virtually all nations pointed at the US in Cancun? Obviously they must be mistaken. Those involved in world agricultural trade point fingers at the problem makers – US and France.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

They cannot sell their sugar because our politicians created that problem. Bullshit is not answering the question: why did virtually the entire world walk out three days early in Cancun blaming the US for unfair trading? Why did they complain that we – using corporate welfare - make many agricultural jobs virtually impossible in Central and South American and Africa?

Who the fuck cares? If you're so concerned about fair trade then be concerned about China, Japan, et al. Why is it us that has to be fair and not the others? Do you think sending jobs to Mexico because they are free to pollute with abandon, and treat employees like shit,
fair trade?

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Who the fuck cares? If you're so concerned about fair trade then be concerned about China, Japan, et al. Why is it us that has to be fair and not the others?

Maybe because the nations who are accused by virtually then entire world of unfair trading also have immigration problems? You don't see the world complaining so much about Japan or China.

Are you assuming that China and Japan are unfair traders? Fine. Why are those nations not subverting the Doha round of GATT?

60 Minutes last night had but another example of the myopia when we complain about the illegals. Federal agents were invited into Nebraska to sweep illegals from meat processing plants. Federal sweep was so successful that the region suffered a massive economic downturn. The Feds were strongly invited to leave so that the illegals would come back.

Of course, that is but another job just as easily performed outside the US. Just another job that we need illegal immigrants for - or a job that needs the US to eliminate another reason for the problem - immigrant quotas. Nebraska simply learned illegal immigrants are not the problem so many hype them to be. The real problem is in the American laws - that create an illegal immigrant problem.

The latest damning example being ethanol. We suddenly want lots of ethanol. And who pioneered the technology? Who has plenty of ethanol to sell? Brazil. So what do we do? Pass laws that put a 54% tariff on Brazil ethanol. It this action based in intelligence - or just the rich manipulating laws for their own purpose - and creating more need for illegal immigrants.

Bruce – as soon as I hear reasons from political hypsters being used, then t I doubt. By doubting absolute nonsense (such as terrorists massing at that border), then discovered is this major reason for an illegal immigration problem. US – with or without periods in that word.