I hate my Bank - part II

Well, I first posted about this about a week or so ago, and the plot thickens. For those who didn't read my first post, I had been told by a bank clerk that my debit card would not allow me to become more than $100 overdrawn. I don't want to be any overdrawn, but was hit by a large utility bill that is automatically deducted from my account and put me in negative -$97.00 territory. I was then notified of a $200 payment from a client that was supposed to be direct deposited, and the bank allowed me to continue to use my debit card, and then sent me 6 overdraft notices on the same day to the effect that I was over $300 overdrawn, and I also got my $200.00 check in the MAIL!

Sooo, I went down to the bank a week ago to try to fiugure out what the heck was going on. A second clerk then informed me that people who have direct deposit to their accounts are "allowed" to become up to $350.00 overdrawn after they have had their account for several months. I asked why I was not informed of this fact in the beginning and the clerk said and I quote, "We never tell anybody about that." !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I asked her why the hell not, and she said, "Because we don't want people to abuse their debit cards."

*****speechless*****

So, I asked to talk to the branch manager. I explained the whole situation to her and told her that it seemed to me that the bank was violating truth in lending policies by telling me one thing about my debit card and doing another at $20.00 a pop. I told her that I had beleived the information that I had been given when I opened the account and that if they were going to change the rules on me, the very least they could do is notify me, and that I wanted to be refunded all those $20 over-draft fees which I would never have allowed to be incurred against me if only someone in their bank had bothered to tell me the truth.

The branch manager said she would contact her supervisor and see what the supervisor said. This was a week ago now. I have called the branch manager every day and every day gotten some lame excuse. The supervisor was out of town; the supervisor must not have read her e-mail yet; the branch manager hadn't read HER e-mail yet. Today I went down in person and was told it was the branch manager's day off and the assistant manager couldn't read her e-mail.

Whatever happened to picking up the effffffing phone?!?

I am SOOOOOOOO mad!

How can this be right? Advise please.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You didn't read the fine print on the last page of the circular they haven't circulated.

The Financial Institution (us) in regard to actions affecting the patron(you), in keeping with the spirit of the party in power, reserve the right to actions and decisions that will increase the bottom line of the Institution at the expense of the patron;
i.e. We Can Do Dat.

[Cheyenne]

When I changed banks from one that did not have overdraft.... I paid $29.00 for a coffee at StarBucks. I was so angry, but now i use the overdraft to my advantage. It helps when one is a single mum of 3.


You may want to go to the bank in person and speak with an elevated voice. They will be glad to help I am sure.

[tw]

To this day I will never understand why anyone would want a debit card. Your accounts are exposed - near zero protection. A debit card is all advantages to your bank - no vallue to you. Demonstrated here is why debit cards are nothing but problem. And so I ask, why would anyone use a debit card - not use a credit card?

[Cheyenne]

my card is debit or credit.

i await the day it begins with the numbers: 530 - 666 - XXXX - XXXX - XXXX - XXXX

[WabUfvot5]

Debit can be useful. Por ejemplo at the shady taquiera where the credit card machine is always broken. Run across the street the bank and use the debit card to get cash. Of course I have one of those credit / debit cards and always use credit if given a choice. Then in the event I get screwed I have a fallback.

Your bank probably sent out some insert full of tiny print saying they were allowed to do that. It doesn't make it right. Sounds like the lady knows you're mad and is just trying to deflect you until your temper cools and you forget. Next time you call say (very firmly) if the situation is not resolved to your satisfaction you'll switch banks. That will get their attention.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by tw

To this day I will never understand why anyone would want a debit card. Your accounts are exposed - near zero protection. A debit card is all advantages to your bank - no vallue to you. Demonstrated here is why debit cards are nothing but problem. And so I ask, why would anyone use a debit card - not use a credit card?

Bingo.

Originally Posted by tw

To this day I will never understand why anyone would want a debit card. Your accounts are exposed - near zero protection. A debit card is all advantages to your bank - no vallue to you. Demonstrated here is why debit cards are nothing but problem. And so I ask, why would anyone use a debit card - not use a credit card?

Because, tw, my long illness had the effect of destroying my credit among other things. No entity will now give me a credit card. With my current difficulty remembering spatial things correctly (including numbers), it seemed like a debit card would be the way to go. The bank led me to believe that I would get a transaction denied screen once I dropped to the magic -$100.00 point. Well, they lied. Lied to my very face. They don't consider me credit worthy enough for a credit card, but I am credit worthy enough to become $340.00 overdrawn with all the standard fines, fees, penalties and accessments. They can make beaucoup bucks off the people like me that way, so why should they extend us credit?

At this point, I am seriously thinking of going on a cash only basis.

Originally Posted by Jebediah

Your bank probably sent out some insert full of tiny print saying they were allowed to do that.

No, by the admission of one of their own tellers, they did NOT! "We NEVER tell anyone about that."

[WabUfvot5]

Originally Posted by marichiko

At this point, I am seriously thinking of going on a cash only basis.

Don't tell the bank that! They'll think you a nutjob. The threat of switching banks also means their competitor would gain.

No, by the admission of one of their own tellers, they did NOT! "We NEVER tell anyone about that."

The teller could be wrong, could mean they never tell you in person. I've seen plenty of blank looks from tellers when asking a simple question to know they aren't informed. Maybe your bank is different.

Your story does make me recall all those relatives who hid $... now they don't seem so crazy. Have banks always been sleazy?

Originally Posted by Jebediah

Don't tell the bank that! They'll think you a nutjob. The threat of switching banks also means their competitor would gain.

Heck, I'm gonna threaten to turn them into the Federal BAnk people. I was checking the rules last night, and their banking practices are highly irregular at best!

Originally Posted by Jebediah

The teller could be wrong, could mean they never tell you in person. I've seen plenty of blank looks from tellers when asking a simple question to know they aren't informed. Maybe your bank is different.

She was one of the head tellers and three other tellers were standing around listening to us at the time (it was a slow day), and none of them corrected her. Plus earlier when I had asked specifically about the amount of over-draft charges I could incur with the card, I was told $100.00.

Originally Posted by Jebediah

Your story does make me recall all those relatives who hid $... now they don't seem so crazy. Have banks always been sleazy?

Banks were better twenty years ago then what they are now. Your relatives might have grown up in the depression or had parents who did when a lot of banks went under and everyone who had money in them lost most if not all their savings.

[Cheyenne]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Banks were better twenty years ago then what they are now. Your relatives might have grown up in the depression or had parents who did when a lot of banks went under and everyone who had money in them lost most if not all their savings.

i remember as a little girl going to the bank with my trusty lil register book. the teller would write in it by hand. memmer you memmer?

[Iggy]

Ok, first of all, I am a teller at a bank. And I am not trying to attack anyone but I thought I should clear some of this confusion up. I apologize for the crazy order...

Debit cards are not also credit cards. Period. You can have it ran through as a credit card, but it does not come out of a credit account that way, it still comes out of your checking account. The only differences are if you run it as debit you use a pin and it comes out of your account pretty fast (most of the time) and if you run it as credit you sign the slip and it can take longer to come out of your account. Running your debit card as a credit card does not mean it comes out of a credit account, which is the difference between the two.

A credit card does not have cash behind it like a debit card does. The only way it can come out of a credit card account (or line of credit) is if you have overdraft protection and you specify that if you are going to overdraw your account that the bank has authority to take funds from the credit card account. But again, running it as credit will not make it come out of the credit account (unless you are overdrawn). I hope that makes sense to you all, if not let me know and I will go into more detail.

Second of all, even if the bank makes money off of you when you are overdrawn, it is also a lot more likely that the bank will have to take a loss because of it. Many, many people overdraw their accounts and just never pay the bank. Then the bank charges-off what is left and closes the account so they can't lose more money. They have to go through a large process to get their money, and often they never do.

Also, if you go into a bank and start yelling at the employees for your account being overdrawn, then they don't really want you as a customer. If you start verbally abusing (i.e. cursing, yelling louder, etc) or threatening, they want you to leave. I don't know about your bank, but I have been told that if a customer is threatening you (the bank employee) then they are no longer a customer. We have closed accounts where the customer is abusive towards the employees.

So if you are yelling at them for letting your account be overdrawm, they might be trying to get you to change banks. It is pretty sad, but if happens. Many other business with customer service feel the same way. If you are being rude, yelling, abusive, etc, then for all they care you should go to the competitor. Let them deal with you.

Now for the mean part. It is your responsibility to keep track of how much you have in your account. Not the banks. If you spend more money than you have, you are going to be overdrawn. There is nothing the bank can do about that. If your bank is like we are, you can opt out of having the bank let you get overdrawn. We have something similar to them, and you can be overdrawn to a certain amount. But I don't know how long it was since you asked them the first time about being overdrawn, but it might have changed. I know for my bank they slowly increase the amount you are allowed to be overdrawn.

So if you asked them, lets say a month ago, you might have only been allowed to be overdrawn $100, whereas now you can be overdrawn up to $350. And if you start being more irresponsible with your account then they will lower it again. It just depends on the history of your account. So when they told you that you were allowed a negative balance of $100, that may have been the case at the time.

We also do not tell people about the option to be overdrawn, unless they ask or it becomes an issue. That is common practice, because many people (maybe not you, but they don't know that) abuse that service and cost the bank money in time and resources.

Think of it like this, if you are overdrawn, the bank loaned you money to pay your transactions (checks, debit card purchases, etc.). Any loan you get is going to have fees. Also, if you chose to opt out, then although they won't pay your checks and whatnot, you will still get a fee because the bank has to return the item and again, it costs money and resources.

So would you rather have them pay your checks and you have the one fee from the bank for each item, or do you want them to return everything that overdraws your account and pay the bank and the person who you gave the item?

I think that is all I had to say... again, not trying to attack anyone, but I thought I should clear some of this up.

Well, Iggy, I don't know that I was abusive to them, but I DID let them know that I was upset. I told them at the very beginning that I did not WANT a debit card that would allow me to inadvertantly overdraw my account. They said, "Too bad. That's how it works here."

I don't write checks. I only use the card. I would far prefer to have the card spit out at me and the message transaction denied then get reamed for $20.00 every time. And I think raising people's overdraft limit without telling them is terribly unfair on the bank's part. I got an e-mail saying my check had been direct deposited. I had no reason to beleive that they were giving mis-information and had instead sent my check in the mail. If I knew that the bank had increased my overdraft limit, I wouldn't have used it. Or at the very least, I would have just taken $200 cash from the ATM all at once and paid a single overdraft charge of $20.00.

I understand what you're saying about the customer having the responsibility to keep track of her account. It would help the customer greatly in this endeavor to know what the bank's policies are, however.

[Iggy]

Knowing how things work at that bank is a very good thing. And you might not have been abusive, I wasn't there, I don't know. But I do know when customers get like that (abusive) here it makes the boss a lot less likely to be helpful and fast. That is all I was trying to say...

Debit cards can be a big pain in the butt. But the bank can't really send a letter every time something changes, it wouldn't be cost effective. I know that a lot of people probably don't care about the bank being cost effective, but that is why they do it that way. Policies seem to change several times a year and most of the time it doesn't affect everyone so it would be silly to send it out to everyone. And to pinpoint each person it might affect is time consuming and not efficient.

One thing I forgot to mention, we have information on our version of the overdraft system where the bank lets you be overdrawn to a certain amount. If you had asked about it they should have given you their brochure on it so you could see how it works. We don't automatically tell people about it because we assume (I know, making an ass out of you and me) that everyone is going to keep track of their account and will not need to be overdrawn.

I do agree that they should tell you these things, but to go over every possible scenario with the policies would take forever and the teller might not have even known that the amount they let you overdraw could change. Our little deposit agreement thing we give with all new accounts says that the policies can change at the bank's discretion and that the customer will be notified as the law requires.

Did you read all of the information they gave you when you got the account? I doubt it... very, very few people do. But that isn't to say you have to. You should be able to ask your teller how things work and get an accurate answer, but that isn't always the way it works. The way the bank sees it most of the time, if they gave you a disclosure saying that the policies will change at their discretion, then they are free and clear.

Many people don't like the way the system works and therefore choose not to have accounts. That is fine. Ultimately the bank is out to make a profit (as are all business) and so they will only go so far to keep the customer. They can't make everyone happy, and more people prefer to have things paid and pay the overdraft fee than have them declined. And so the system caters to the majority. But you should ask your bank about opting out of their system so that they won't let your account be overdrawn. But be forewarned, you will most likely still have the fees if something tries to come out of your account that would give your account a negative balance.

Thank you, Iggy. Your replies have been very informative and helpful.

No. I didn't read the three pages of microscopic print that they gave me when I opened the account. It might well have contained a disclaimer such as you describe.

I was never given a brochure or any other sort of information about over-drafts when I asked about it the first time around and requested that my debit card not be allowed to put me into overdraft status.

On my slender income an overdraft fee of $20.00 REALLY hurts. I can be a single penny off in my accounting. Say I pay for something with my debit card that was $20.00 and I only had 19.99 in my account. My balance then becomes $-20.01. What really hurts is when I forget to write down some minor transaction, say for $10.00. I'm thinking $10.00 is still in there and I buy a couple of cans of dog food for .99 cents, then at another store I buy a $3.00 pack of cold medicine, and finally I put $5.00 of gas in my tank. I'm thinking I still have $2.00 in my account when in reality, its down to -$68.99. The bank isn't hurt because I get a small check direct deposited to them on the third of every month, and that $68.00 gets deducted immediently, right off the top. For extending a "loan" of 8.99 for 3 days, the bank rakes in a $60.00 profit. But on a budget as tight as mine, that -$68.00 forces me to make a choice between paying my utility bill or my car insurance. So changes in bank policies can make a huge difference to me and lots of other low income folks, as well.

Bottom line, I can't afford a bank account, and when I move, I'm having my check sent to my mailbox. Even those check cashing outfits won't charge me $60.00 to cash it, and the local Safeway grocery store will cash it for free.

Thanks for a view from the other side, though.