a well regulated militia

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by jaguar
Abstract absolute rights. Something i've heard throw about here before. They don't exist.

It's only abstract to you because your rights in this connection are already gone. For me the issue is still quite concete, thanks. And nobody said "absolute" either; there's plenty of ways self-defense rights are abridged. Some I agree with, some I don't.

So you've set up a "straw-man" augument and then torn it down. Bravo.
(Will you be taking a class in argumentation when you get to college? You *are* going to go to college, right? We haven't heard much about that lately, and September is next month.)

Our own apathy and greed destroyed the concept of a functioning democracy generations ago.

Well, I can certainly see that the functioning of <b>your</b> democracy is impaired, whether we're talking obout the right to keep and bear arms or the right to see what you want on the Internet. But then "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance", as long as we're flinging quotes about. <b>Our</b> democracy still seems to be struggling along somehow...not perfect, but arguably still the best deal in town. YMMV.

quote:Violence is the tool of the weak minded
Issac Asimov. Never heard a truer sentence.

I beleive the quote is "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant", from the "Foundation" trilogy. Don't you see that when one employs a weapon in self-defense, it is against such an incompetant who has taken refuge in violence?

Dr. Asimov was an impressive polymath, a good science fiction writer and a delightful gentleman. I met him at a convention in NYC once; I don't think he'd be pleased at the way the words of his character Salvor Hardin have been abused since then. Hardin also said: "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."

Man, you really are bitter aren't you? That statement shows more about your mentality than anything else. Guns are the big equaliser eh? Now i can take on that tough guy. What happens when someone gets a bigger gun. What happens when all thsoe bad guys you're just itching to blow away...

Oh, dear, we're back to this again. "Anyone who arms themselves for protection must be in the grip of blood lust." Of course, training with and carrying a blade among a disarmed population is noble, it's just <i>firearms</i> that are implicitly evil.

Yes, weapons <b>are</b> an equalizer in combat between the bigger and stronger and the smaller and weaker. That's a trend since Ogg the caveman first picked up a stick. It's continued through the invention of the spear, the sword, armor, the longbow, and so on. Firearms have removed the last advantage of the brute.The possibility that ordinary people may be legally armed with concealed handguns makes comitting violent crime a much trickier and more dangerous affair--<b>for the criminal</b>. I like it that way. Too bad if you don't. But will you ever stop conflating the desire to not be helpless in the face of violence with the desire to <b>be</b> violent?

Sludge feels much better when he's the biggest guy in the joint, and doesn't have to worry that that guy over there who *looks* like a pushover might not actually be. And you seem unable to abide the idea that there are people with the freedom to legally choose to arm themselves, they all must all be slavering murderers looking for an excuse to unleash a bloodbath. (That's called "projection", and even if you don't get a class in argumentation, they'll cover that for you in freshman psych, under "defense mechanisms".)

Look, the process of licencing for concealed carry filters out the great preponderance of people likely to commit *any* crime, much less starting a random spray of fire at a disco (which is your violent fantasy) or sneak up behind Sludge and put a bullet in his head, depriving him of a dramatic struggle on some "Mortal Combat" field of honor, may the best man win.

Those are <b>crimes</b>. I know many folks licenced for concealed carry personally; they are gentle, careful, responsible people. I'm not uncomfortable around them in the slightest. Unfortunately you have little chance to learn the truth of that, since anyone who's armed where you are is by definition a criminal.

So spare me your "you must be bitter". That's a ludicrous red herring...especially after your jaded assertion that democracy is dead and our rights are dead abstractions. Methinks the pot calls the kettle black.