Learning Natural Languages

[Perry Winkle]

I just started (trying) to learn Czech. There aren't any classes in my area for Czech so I'm stuck learning on my own. So far I've bought the Colloquial Czech CDs/Tapes + Book and have been listening to http://www.radio.cz/. I think maybe finding a Czech pen pal would be beneficial.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Advice? Comments?

I've mentioned this before but I'm planning on moving to the Czech Republic after graduation in the spring so at that point finding native Czech speakers to practice on won't be a problem. I'm prepared for strange looks and constant mistakes.

Ahoj!

[dar512]

How about the Czech version of Reader's Digest?

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by dar512

How about the Czech version of Reader's Digest?

Good idea. I found where they claim to publish RD in Czech but I haven't actually found where to subscribe yet.

Thanks.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'd like to know why you wish to live there?
Just want to Czech it out?

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'd like to know why you wish to live there?
Just want to Czech it out?

I want to teach english for a year or two. It would give me a chance to spend time in a bunch of places I love and see a bunch of places I've never been to. The architecture and history in the CR alone could keep me busy for a decade.

Also, I just think it will be fun. I'm not real excited to start a mainstream career. I'm thinking at some point I'll start a restaurant or some sort of IT Consulting or Game Development company.

My favorite Czech pun so far is "Czech book".

[xoxoxoBruce]

Teaching...restaurant...some sort of IT Consulting....Game Development company. Wow, that's a range.

[Tonchi]

Grant, I AM Czech (on my mother's side, Bohemian father) and I can tell you the only reasons for you to learn that language is to train police/guard dogs or because you want to communicate with spies. Czech was the lengua franca of the spy trade in the 60's precisely because so few people knew it or wanted to know it. The only language which sounds worse to speak is Dutch (and I am Dutch on my father's side). A lot of my relatives still live over there, but my uncle is the only one who has visited them so far. My immigrant grandfather had a horrible time learning to write English because there are no vowels when you're writing Czech. I applaud your desire to teach English there, there are several work-abroad websites promising good positions in the CR, but maybe you could go to the American University there instead, once you are already working?

There are two Czech kids in our Thalia fan club, a boy and a girl, but I would have to ask them which language they speak because some of the people speak German. Splitting the country into Slovakia and the Czech Republic also complicated things. If you are serious, PM me and I will contact my kids there

[wolf]

I have made several attempts at language acquisition without the benefit of a structured class setting. As a consequence I have a vocabulary of about 20 or so Vietnamese words, and no understanding of the grammar. On a good day I can remember what letters of the Greek alphabet make what sounds, but that's mostly because I learned the Russian Alphabet in a structured class setting and Cyril stole a lot of the characters from the Greek Alphabet.

[wolf]

Oh, and since nobody asked yet ... What the heck's natural about Czech? They use too many consonants in a row.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by wolf

Oh, and since nobody asked yet ... What the heck's natural about Czech? They use too many consonants in a row.

Natural languages are what people use for verbal communication, including writing. Artificial languages are things like computer programming languages.

The prototypical example of too many consonants is "Strč prst skrz krk" . Some letters like 'r' are consonants in both English and Czech. However, in Czech they can function, more or less, as vowels.

(I'm going to respond to posts in reverse chronological order and in individual postings to avoid confusing myself as much as possible.)

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by wolf

I have made several attempts at language acquisition without the benefit of a structured class setting. As a consequence I have a vocabulary of about 20 or so Vietnamese words, and no understanding of the grammar. On a good day I can remember what letters of the Greek alphabet make what sounds, but that's mostly because I learned the Russian Alphabet in a structured class setting and Cyril stole a lot of the characters from the Greek Alphabet.

I learned the Greek Alphabet from a computer science Phd student of all people. He also taught me how to pronounce some Hindi. The Cyrillic alphabet doesn't seem too daunting to me but I'd never want to attempt any of the writings systems for Chinese, Japanese, etc.

I've tried to learn German on my own but it didn't go very far because of lack of motivation. There was nobody to speak it too and I wasn't planning on visiting anytime soon. I took 3 years of Spanish in high school and a semester in college. I can still understand it pretty well mainly because I'm exposed to it around town.

I'm a bit of a language enthusiast.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Grant, I AM Czech (on my mother's side, Bohemian father) and I can tell you the only reasons for you to learn that language is to train police/guard dogs or because you want to communicate with spies.

There are something like 12 million native Czech speakers in the world. I'm learning Czech so that I can communicate with people in their native language, especially if they don't speak English. An even stronger motive for me is the sense of accomplishment.

Originally Posted by Tonchi

The only language which sounds worse to speak is Dutch (and I am Dutch on my father's side).

Ok, Dutch can sound kind of funny. I listened to Czech news radio for a few hours yesterday and I think it's a beautiful language. Some of the rhythms that emerge in regular speech are absolutely mind blowing.

Originally Posted by Tonchi

A lot of my relatives still live over there, but my uncle is the only one who has visited them so far. My immigrant grandfather had a horrible time learning to write English because there are no vowels when you're writing Czech.

Czech has plenty of vowels...

From locallingo.com/czech:
Long vowels: á, é, í, ó, ú/ů, ý
Softening vowel: ě

Plus some consonants that can function as vowels(actually sonorants I believe).

Originally Posted by Tonchi

I applaud your desire to teach English there, there are several work-abroad websites promising good positions in the CR, but maybe you could go to the American University there instead, once you are already working?

From what I hear it's not very difficult for native English speakers to find teaching jobs. I have thought about persuing a Masters degree part time while there so that I could go after a Uni position.

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Splitting the country into Slovakia and the Czech Republic also complicated things.

At least Slovak and Czech are mutually intelligible. Czechosolvakia was only a country for mid-late chunk of the 20th century so I've been curious to know how much of a change this actually was. I'll have to look into that.

I appreciate all the replies, everyone.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Teaching...restaurant...some sort of IT Consulting....Game Development company. Wow, that's a range.

He could start a gourmet network gaming cafe development consortium.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Teaching...restaurant...some sort of IT Consulting....Game Development company. Wow, that's a range.

See...my thoughts are along the lines of:

1. Teach for a while and see how I like the place.
2. If I love living there and want to make it permanent start a business
3. If demand for a KC BBQ joint is high enough start a restaurant else IT Consulting to fund the startup of a game development shop.

[Tonchi]

Hi, Grant! My grandfather immigrated to the US in 1906, and I have no idea how they were writing things in those days. The country was called Bohemia then (you're right, Czechoslovakia was a gerrymander), it was an ancient kingdom which every empire in Europe seems to have conquered at one time or the other. We spent very little time visiting him because he remarried and the wicked stepmother cut his natural children out of their lives. I only found out that he never learned to write in English (and his excuse for that) from my mother a few years ago. Naturally the people who live in the CR speak Czech, 12 million at last count, you say? (Thought you were planning on learning it here in the US and not going over immediately.) But my family also spoke German in their homes here.

The Czech girl in our club ended up in Slovakia when they partitioned the country, but she is 100% Czech and was born just outside Brno, where my grandfather came from; she even remembers hearing our family name all the time. But they ended up on the Slovak side because of where her father was working at the time of the partition. At least they got it done without any fighting and killing.

Everything I ever heard about the Czech people has been good (not that I'm prejudiced or anything, hee hee). They do love to make Polack jokes though, seems to be a real aversion between them and that nationality. Between the Germans seeping across the border and then seizing the country in both World Wars, and then the Communist puppet government, the cities looked really shabby by the 1970's, until they finally could take charge of their own destiny again. Mom says education was always very important there, music too, and I remember that even under the Communists the Czech film industry was the most impressive and innovative in Europe. So you could definitely do worse, and if you get a good offer I hope you'll accept it. My Czechs are educated and happy people, it's the Hungarians who hate everything about their country. Unfortunately, we got 10 Hungarians and only 2 Czechs