Finding the Devil in New Orleans

wolf · 09-01-2005, 11:30 AM

Okay, so like where is the Weekly World News Cover with the Devil's Face in the approaching storm? Isn't that what this thread is about?

glatt · 09-01-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Okay, so like where is the Weekly World News Cover with the Devil's Face in the approaching storm? Isn't that what this thread is about?

That's what I thought too when I first clicked on the thread.

chronos · 09-01-2005, 12:40 PM

TW,
One thing I have a bit of an issue with is the complaint that the city has not been engineered to withstand the sort of storm that has hit it now and that it's the fault of the local goverment for not making sure the city could deal with this. This is an easy flaw to target and rail against, but in all honesty what could really be expected?
I've been a consultant for years and I've gone into hundreds of environments where I've been stunned that they still run with how badly they've been engineered and patched together. At first I blamed the management for not authorizing the efforts needed to fix everything. I've since learned that it is so easy to come in after the fact and say how things SHOULD have been done to deal with the current situation. This view doesn't take into account the growth and demands every step along the way. People make the best decisions they can with the information AND funding they have. As they grow to meet larger demands they add things piecemeal which adds to the hodgepodge nature of the environment.
Consider that New Orleans has been around for over 100 years and over that period the population has exploded. The city used to be above water. By the time things got out of hand and the city in jeapordy, it was too expensive and politically impossible to change things. As private citizens we get PISSED at the gov when they tell us we have to sacrifice our personal situation for the greater good. Would you sacrifice your home because the gov said they needed to make a better drainage system? Would you let them double your taxes and put up with 10-15 years of major construction (a la Boston) so that you were better prepared for a 100 or 1000 year storm? If you say yes, I believe you are in the minority. Officials that suggested charging the taxes needed to do what needed to be done wouldn't get elected. We, as american citizens, vote for officials that make our INDIVIDUAL lives better not those that protect the society as a whole at our expense.
As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences. As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need.

Just my two cents.

OnyxCougar · 09-01-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronos

As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences.

And then get paid when it's time to sue the City of New Orleans, et al for the levees breaking.

Quote:

As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need.

The only people that COULD NOT are prisoners, people in the hospital, and law enforcement/fire crew, and nurses/doctors, etc who are fully expected to stay.

I don't care if you don't have a car, you can grab a trashbag of clothes and start walking. Where? Anywhere higher than here. North is good. You might not have gotten far, but you wouldn't be at the Superdome.

In addition: this whole thing at the superdome is dumb. You have (picking a number out my ass) 25,000 people at the superdome, waiting for rescue by helicopter. A group of (lets say) 100 people are shooting at the helicopter. Why didn't the 24,900 other people beat the living shit out of them for suspending the evacuation? I'd have a hard time letting some dumbshit shoot at my ride outta here. FUCK THAT!

I think martial law should have been declared yesterday, and I think TW is spot on with his diagnosis of the problem. I think rebuilding New Orleans on the present site is fucking stupid, especially in light of the article's contents, posted in the first few posts.

My company has offices in New Orleans and Pensacola, and affiliates in Baton Rouge. We're all getting together and helping the people who HAD to stay, but those who were non essential were made to evacuate by the company.

I have little sympathy for any who chose to stay, whether they had vehicles or not. A mandatory evacuation order was in place. Why will you pay these people who were stupid enough to stay? When are we going to get tired of paying higher insurance premiums for dumbasses like this???

Oh, you built a $500,000 home on Okracoke Island? The San Andreas? New Orleans? Then you're an idiot to start with, but want insurance? Um....how about... NO! Pay for any damages your dumb damn self, don't expect me and millions of others to pay for YOUR ignorant choices.

*grr*

Edit: "When the Levee Breaks" by Led Zepplin. I hear it's not allowed to be played on the radio. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mr.Anon.E.Mouse · 09-01-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't care if you don't have a car, you can grab a trashbag of clothes and start walking. Where? Anywhere higher than here. North is good. You might not have gotten far, but you wouldn't be at the Superdome.

I saw a video clip on the CNN.com website - an interview with a woman who was pissed off:"....We had to walk, literally walk, out of town!" Um, hello?! Sometimes you have to walk, nay, RUN, if you want to save your fucking life! In another interview a different woman described how her boy friend stole a bakery truck. Ok, well, I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but, it seems, when that truck broke down, her boyfriend's friend beat up another guy driving a semi and they stole THAT one, too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

In addition: this whole thing at the superdome is dumb. You have (picking a number out my ass) 25,000 people at the superdome, waiting for rescue by helicopter. A group of (lets say) 100 people are shooting at the helicopter. Why didn't the 24,900 other people beat the living shit out of them for suspending the evacuation? I'd have a hard time letting some dumbshit shoot at my ride outta here. FUCK THAT!

Hear, hear. But then maybe those sensible people were busy stopping the folks sticking up a van full of medical supplies. Oh, wait, no, they weren't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Oh, you built a $500,000 home on Okracoke Island? The San Andreas? New Orleans? Then you're an idiot to start with, but want insurance? Um....how about... NO! Pay for any damages your dumb damn self, don't expect me and millions of others to pay for YOUR ignorant choices.

*grr*

I used to do flood determinations based on ACOE maps for the NFIP. I was blown away by the folks that would build their homes in areas that were clearly designated as not safe to build homes in as a result of tidal flooding. But you know what? The homes would get washed away and FEMA would come in and let them rebuild. Insurance would pay for the new place and Bob's yer uncle, see you again in 20 years.

Is it bad that I'm feeling very little for the victims of this horrible disaster? I mean, I gave every bit of money I could afford to give to the victims of the tsunami last year, I felt horrible for them and, damn, I just don't seem to have any more grief left. Especially for folks shooting at rescue and military helicopters, folks holding up at gun-point medical supply vehicles, folks looting their neighbors...

tw · 09-01-2005, 10:57 PM

Ted Koppel on Nightline is currently grilling Michael Brown with questions that make me look politically correct. Michael Brown is not answering - instead making excuses. For example, no one is being fed in the SuperDome. Michael Brown had to be confronted with that fact multiple times before he would admit it. It is worse than that bad. FEMA knew that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no means of getting out of town .... and FEMA did nothing.

BTW, Koppel also noted George Jr's statement that no one could have forseen the levees would break. Just anther example of gross administrative mismanagement.

Look at Koppel's eyes. There is an anger in his calm grilling that I have not seen in years. The long list of details in Koppel's grilling exposes another point. Five days after the fact and FEMA is only talking about what they are planning to do - not what is currently underway or ongoing. FEMA still has no plans.

Elspode · 09-01-2005, 11:23 PM

Try bouncing back and forth between MSNBC and FoxNews.

On MSNBC, people are dead and dying, starving, screaming, abandoned at the Civic Center...

On Fox, people are clean, comfortable, fed, happy and entertained in refugee centers.

Both the Left and the Right have their mouthpieces working, getting out the message they want us to see.

Hobbs · 09-02-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

FEMA knew that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no means of getting out of town .... and FEMA did nothing.

It's FEMAs job to forcast things like this, that's their job, the reason why they exist. However, I don't think that anyone predicted this could be as bad as it is. I think everyone is overwelmed right now. No one knows where to go or who to help first. There are so many fronts to attack, rescue, law enforcement, evacuation, recovery. Someone once told me that in planning for emergency responses for things such as this, that organizations such as the city, county, and/or FEMA puts into place what's called a resonable or acceptable amount of loss. What I think this means is they know they can't save everyone or handle every situation so they concentrate the resources they have into certain areas to be better effective as opposed to spreading the resource thin and not being effective anywhere. I haven't been able to confirm this becuase I heard this second hand a while ago.

09-01-2005, 11:30 AM	#1
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Okay, so like where is the Weekly World News Cover with the Devil's Face in the approaching storm? Isn't that what this thread is about? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

09-01-2005, 10:57 PM	#6
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Ted Koppel on Nightline is currently grilling Michael Brown with questions that make me look politically correct. Michael Brown is not answering - instead making excuses. For example, no one is being fed in the SuperDome. Michael Brown had to be confronted with that fact multiple times before he would admit it. It is worse than that bad. FEMA knew that 100,000 people in New Orleans had no means of getting out of town .... and FEMA did nothing. BTW, Koppel also noted George Jr's statement that no one could have forseen the levees would break. Just anther example of gross administrative mismanagement. Look at Koppel's eyes. There is an anger in his calm grilling that I have not seen in years. The long list of details in Koppel's grilling exposes another point. Five days after the fact and FEMA is only talking about what they are planning to do - not what is currently underway or ongoing. FEMA still has no plans. Last edited by tw; 09-01-2005 at 11:03 PM.

09-01-2005, 11:23 PM	#7
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Try bouncing back and forth between MSNBC and FoxNews. On MSNBC, people are dead and dying, starving, screaming, abandoned at the Civic Center... On Fox, people are clean, comfortable, fed, happy and entertained in refugee centers. Both the Left and the Right have their mouthpieces working, getting out the message they want us to see. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-01-2005, 12:40 PM	#3
chronos Dry Nurse Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23	TW, One thing I have a bit of an issue with is the complaint that the city has not been engineered to withstand the sort of storm that has hit it now and that it's the fault of the local goverment for not making sure the city could deal with this. This is an easy flaw to target and rail against, but in all honesty what could really be expected? I've been a consultant for years and I've gone into hundreds of environments where I've been stunned that they still run with how badly they've been engineered and patched together. At first I blamed the management for not authorizing the efforts needed to fix everything. I've since learned that it is so easy to come in after the fact and say how things SHOULD have been done to deal with the current situation. This view doesn't take into account the growth and demands every step along the way. People make the best decisions they can with the information AND funding they have. As they grow to meet larger demands they add things piecemeal which adds to the hodgepodge nature of the environment. Consider that New Orleans has been around for over 100 years and over that period the population has exploded. The city used to be above water. By the time things got out of hand and the city in jeapordy, it was too expensive and politically impossible to change things. As private citizens we get PISSED at the gov when they tell us we have to sacrifice our personal situation for the greater good. Would you sacrifice your home because the gov said they needed to make a better drainage system? Would you let them double your taxes and put up with 10-15 years of major construction (a la Boston) so that you were better prepared for a 100 or 1000 year storm? If you say yes, I believe you are in the minority. Officials that suggested charging the taxes needed to do what needed to be done wouldn't get elected. We, as american citizens, vote for officials that make our INDIVIDUAL lives better not those that protect the society as a whole at our expense. As to the people who didn't leave when they should have and COULD have, I hate to say it but they made a choice and had to suffer the consequences. As to those that should have left but COULD NOT, it makes me very very sad and I pray for those that are still alive that they get the help they need. Just my two cents.

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