Illegal Immigrants Are Killing Us

[mrnoodle]

Why must everyone couch this argument in useless blather about class warfare? It's not about their Mexicanness, it's not about their sorry state of affairs at home. It's not about whether or not they have good intentions. It's about an already suffocated welfare system, border-state hospitals in financial crisis, and a border that serves as a flashing neon welcome mat to terrorists, terrorist weapons, drug runners, and slave traders.

We're supposed to be all-compassionate, all-giving, ever-welcoming and supportive, but require nothing of those we're so damn nice to. It is not too much to ask to require that if you live and work in this country, you get your name on the books. You on the left who are so enamored of the liberal, refined ways of the United Nations: pick a UN country whose immigration policy you'd like to adopt in this situation.

I could be wrong, but I'm betting you don't find one that says "Sure, come as you are, we don't need to see your credentials. Have fun, enjoy your stay."

edit:
FWIW, marichiko, i was looking at my family's history in the Civil War while I was in NC. They were mostly privates in the Confederacy, and about half were deserters. I know from white trash. And the ratio of useless white person to working Mexican is 32:1 in southern Colorado. What's your point? No restrictions for anyone, unless they're white? I'm only half kidding...that's what most rhetoric from the other side sounds like to me.

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

edit:
FWIW, marichiko, i was looking at my family's history in the Civil War while I was in NC. They were mostly privates in the Confederacy, and about half were deserters. I know from white trash. And the ratio of useless white person to working Mexican is 32:1 in southern Colorado. What's your point? No restrictions for anyone, unless they're white? I'm only half kidding...that's what most rhetoric from the other side sounds like to me.

FWIW back at you, my family didn't even fight in the civil war. I could not be a member of the Confedrate Daughters of America or whatever they're called. A lot of southerners deserted the ranks to go home and plow their spring crops. A lot deserted because they were worried about their families. The hardships the Civil War imposed on the South were far higher than what it imposed on the North. I once asked my Dad why our family didn't fight in the War between the States, and he looked very surprised. "We were poor people. We weren't interested in keeping slaves, and the fighting never really came near our farms, so we didn't have to worry about defending our homes." Pragmatists, they were. But this is off topic.

I made the comment I did because some folks were getting all huffy about how THEIR ancestors came here legally like this somehow made them better than more recent immigrants. 100 years ago, the US was begging for immigrants. It was no big deal to come here legally. 300 years ago Britain used the southern colonies as a dumping ground for undesirables back in the British Isles. In MY case, I was just pointing out that the fact that my ancestors coming here legally in chains did not make them better than the folks who now come here illegally to work and are forced to LEAVE in chains.

The statement I made to Wolf still stands. I do not see how we can place the full blame on the Mexican illegal worker when it is the American farmers, ranchers and businessmen who hire them under the table, knowing full well that they are illegals. You can't place the sole responsibility on the Mexican workers.

WE are a finite country, and we must accept this fact. There are only so many jobs here to go around. We would be committing suicide as a nation to just throw our southern border open to all who wanted to cross it. Mexican workers do fill a certain need in the labor market, however. They will work harder and for lower wages and benefits than most American workers are willing to work for.

We can put up a 20 foot concrete wall that runs continuously from San Diego to El Paso and gun down all illegals on sight. We will then pay a higher price for any number of agricultural products, services, etc. We can re-instate something like the old Bracero program where Mexican workers come in legally for short periods of time to do the work they do for bargain prices and then go home. We can crack down HARD on employers who use illegals. It is these employers, as much as anyone else, who are forcing the American tax payer to cover schooling, etc, for the illegals. The Mexican people want to work. That's all. We can't let all of them in, but we could stop looking at just one aspect of the problem and look to the bigger picture for solutions.

As far as the hispanic population of Southern Colorado, do you know what you're talking about?

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by marichiko

I made the comment I did because some folks were getting all huffy about how THEIR ancestors came here legally like this somehow made them better than more recent immigrants. 100 years ago, the US was begging for immigrants. It was no big deal to come here legally. 300 years ago Britain used the southern colonies as a dumping ground for undesirables back in the British Isles. In MY case, I was just pointing out that the fact that my ancestors coming here legally in chains did not make them better than the folks who now come here illegally to work and are forced to LEAVE in chains.

The ancestors who came legally are no "better" than the new immigrants who come legally. However, both of those groups are entitled to more than the illegal immigrants of both generations. We owe our citizens lifelibertyandthepursuitofhappiness, but we don't owe anyone else's citizens dick. That said, there is an argument to be made that we should worry about our neighbors before we worry about Africa. But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.

Incidentally, the dictionary definition of "immigrant" is "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence", not "anyone who wants to get a seasonal job in one country and take the money home to another country, while taking advantage of the services and welfare systems of the first."

The statement I made to Wolf still stands. I do not see how we can place the full blame on the Mexican illegal worker when it is the American farmers, ranchers and businessmen who hire them under the table, knowing full well that they are illegals. You can't place the sole responsibility on the Mexican workers.

Very true. The American side of the equation must be dealt with, as well. But I'm curious....what would you say if you heard that the vast number of illegals coming across the border every year was being denied work and turned back at every doorstep they came to? I suspect that we would be considered evil and heartless, and the left would demand that "something be done," probably in the form of more tax money going to handouts.

WE are a finite country, and we must accept this fact. There are only so many jobs here to go around. We would be committing suicide as a nation to just throw our southern border open to all who wanted to cross it.

Right. So what are you arguing about?

Mexican workers do fill a certain need in the labor market, however. They will work harder and for lower wages and benefits than most American workers are willing to work for.

The only way for this to occur is for American ranchers, etc., to hire them illegally. If they are here legally, they must be paid minimum wage. They could also unionize. The left is guilty of racism on this issue. Not the "hang all [race]" racism, but "you're [race], so you're obviously not equipped to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Because of your race, we'll give you a pass." Patronizing and wrong.

We can put up a 20 foot concrete wall that runs continuously from San Diego to El Paso and gun down all illegals on sight. We will then pay a higher price for any number of agricultural products, services, etc. We can re-instate something like the old Bracero program where Mexican workers come in legally for short periods of time to do the work they do for bargain prices and then go home. We can crack down HARD on employers who use illegals. It is these employers, as much as anyone else, who are forcing the American tax payer to cover schooling, etc, for the illegals. The Mexican people want to work. That's all. We can't let all of them in, but we could stop looking at just one aspect of the problem and look to the bigger picture for solutions.

So where would you personally draw the line? We can't let "all" of them in, so which ones should we allow? Which should we turn back? What is the point of cracking down on employers if you're not going to stem the supply of cheap, illegal labor? Maybe Nancy Reagan could come and tell them to Just Say No?

As far as the hispanic population of Southern Colorado, do you know what you're talking about?

Intimately. At any rate, I was agreeing with you. You shouldn't argue when people are agreeing with you. I was saying that there are 32 decent hardworking Mexicans per useless militia-member white nut.

But I fell into the race trap, at any rate. My bad -- this isn't about race, as much as the left wishes it were.

Ooh. I have to call my Hispanic lawyer and make sure he got the whole $1700 for my DUI case. It almost broke me to pay him, but I'm sure his bambinos will appreciate the extra tortillas, particularly since he's in the Bahamas this week and can't support the family.

[quote=mrnoodle] But just managing to walk across a fence and swim a river does not make you a citizen.[?QUOTE]

Never said it did, and I don't think anyone else here claimed that either.

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

But I'm curious....what would you say if you heard that the vast number of illegals coming across the border every year was being denied work and turned back at every doorstep they came to? I suspect that we would be considered evil and heartless, and the left would demand that "something be done," probably in the form of more tax money going to handouts.

Don't quit your day job just yet, Sherlock. As a card carrying member of the ACLU, here's how'd I respond: I'd demand that All US residents go down and have genetic testing to prove the amount of Native American blood flowing in their veins. Those with less than 50% I would demand be deported at once across the border into Mexico to make their way back to Europe or Africa or Juarez as best they could. I would then demand that Cherokee and Navajo be made the official languages of the country. Any white boy who protested against this would be required to learn the Ghost Dance and the Blessing Way and the Navajo Night Way, as well as memorize the complete text of Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. That should put the damned illegal immigrants in their place!

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Right. So what are you arguing about?

Hint: Well, you could go back and read through this thread. Just a stray thought from my frenzied liberal brain...

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

The only way for this to occur is for American ranchers, etc., to hire them illegally. If they are here legally, they must be paid minimum wage. They could also unionize. The left is guilty of racism on this issue. Not the "hang all [race]" racism, but "you're [race], so you're obviously not equipped to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Because of your race, we'll give you a pass." Patronizing and wrong.

Damn, Noodle, you've got to stop getting all your information from folks like NICOTINE GUN and Zap Comix. Since when is it racist to suggest that perhaps American employers should be required to follow US law? Yeah, poor Americans. They're too stupid to ask a potential employee for a social security number of a green card. After all, they ARE products of the US school system and American talk radio. We can't ask the impossible of them.

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

So where would you personally draw the line? We can't let "all" of them in, so which ones should we allow? Which should we turn back? What is the point of cracking down on employers if you're not going to stem the supply of cheap, illegal labor? Maybe Nancy Reagan could come and tell them to Just Say No?

Excellent idea!

American Employer: "Gotta green card?"
Illegal Immigrant/Wetback: **shrugs shoulders and presents would-be employer with an old ticket to a soccer game held last year in Chihuahua**
American Employer: NO job for YOU!

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Intimately. At any rate, I was agreeing with you. You shouldn't argue when people are agreeing with you. I was saying that there are 32 decent hardworking Mexicans per useless militia-member white nut.

Great! Then you know all about Forbes Trinchera, land grants made by the Spanish Crown and the stand off that occurred just over the Colorado border near Chama, New Mexico some years back. What were you agreeing with me about, by the way?

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

But I fell into the race trap, at any rate. My bad -- this isn't about race, as much as the left wishes it were.

Tisk, tisk. That'll learn you. We on the left adore the race trap. Walk in beauty, white boy! (If you can still walk after getting out of the briar patch you just threw yourself into)

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

Ooh. I have to call my Hispanic lawyer and make sure he got the whole $1700 for my DUI case. It almost broke me to pay him, but I'm sure his bambinos will appreciate the extra tortillas, particularly since he's in the Bahamas this week and can't support the family.

What? You hired some cut rate spic lawyer from the Bahamas who doesn't even have a green card? You must have been drunk!