Understanding terrorism - Page 4

Trilby · 07-22-2005, 10:56 PM

HOLY SHIT! What do the Prod's say? What do the Jews say?

tw, why do you hate people?

lookout123 · 07-22-2005, 11:18 PM

aw shucks tw, you sure danced circles around me again. i sure hope to be brilliant like you some day. i suppose if i barf the last book i read into a post, it would be a good start.

*just so you know - my troll comment was just to rattle your cage. this comment gets a little closer to an insult. *

tw · 07-22-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

tw, why do you hate people?

People want their freedom. People respect others rights. They don't stifle innovation. They don't impose on others misguided preachings from an obsolete book. Good people don't let religion pervert them to the dark side of the force. The dark side - when religion becomes anything other than a relationship between you and your god.

Those who love people would condemn religions that would even create the Spanish Inquisition and condone pedophilia (and not even apologize for it), condone torture (as the American religious right does), and massacre innocent Spanish citizens only because their government participates in an unjustified crusade against another sovereign nation. All this done only because religion somehow knows better?

But you tell me. Show me how good a church is that even told us to hate Jews because of what happened to Jesus. How could I love people and be a part of such hatred? Hatred does not exist just in Islamic extremists. It exists in those who so hate as to stifle the advancement of mankind and innovation; such as stem cell research and kidney transplants. Those who love people do not fear innovation; so fear as to even hype an obvious myth called intelligent design. Good people would not put up with such hatred for mankind’s advancement.

Meanwhile, more people could have been killed in London yesterday. Why? Because religion is so good for people? You tell me who really promotes hate. I have simply carried the message - hatred promoted by religious concepts. Do these mythical gods really exist? Then why do their doctrines promote murder - a hatred for mankind?

lookout123 · 07-22-2005, 11:35 PM

*yawn* the only person i've heard who has a broader brush for their stereotyping would be your pal Rush.

07-22-2005, 11:42 PM

Stepping in as devil's advocate for a moment, I, too, have heard the Catholic church described as pagan. If I can find a cite, I'll post it.

Ah, HERE it is.

You may now resume your squabble. :p

wolf · 07-23-2005, 02:22 AM

I'm not sure you can refer to the "Bible Discernment Ministries" as a reliable source.

I'm not disputing any claims that the Roman Catholic Church has pagan or paganized elements, but, well, the Catholic Church is what the Protestants were protesting about ...

07-23-2005, 04:27 AM

I was lazy. It was the first one out of about 600 that popped up when I googled "catholic church" and "pagan."

Anyhow, I thought that was just sort of a given. Those clever early Christian missionaries just overlaid their doctrine on top of the pagan worship that was prevalent at the time, so we got Christmas instead of the winter solstice, Easter in place of the spring equinox, etc.

I forget what Martin Luther's exact bitch was when he nailed those 95 theses to the local Catholic university's door. I think mostly he was upset that the pope back there in Rome got to be the utilmate authority on the latest insider news from God. The Catholic Encyclopedia hints that Luther may have been a psychopath, but they're probably a bit biased.

Talk about thread drift!

Trilby · 07-23-2005, 07:47 AM

[quote=tw] Meanwhile, more people could have been killed in London yesterday. Why? Because religion is so good for people? You tell me who really promotes hate. I have simply carried the message - hatred promoted by religious concepts. Do these mythical gods really exist? Then why do their doctrines promote murder - a hatred for mankind?[/QUOT

I never intimated that religion was "good for people", I don't subscribe to any organized religion. I know that a lot of people promote hate and it's ususally the love of filthy lucre that drives it. They may wrap themselves in the robes of this-or-that religion, but it always comes down to money.

But you didn't answer the question. Why do YOU hate people? Not why do you hate religion. It's easy to hate religion. It's easy to generalize--you spank cellarites and say they are generalizing the beliefs of the muslims but then you go and generalize Catholics, right-wingers, etc. You do the very thing you say you despise.

Happy Monkey · 07-23-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

The Catholic Church is Pagan? Where, where have I been?
tw, you are truly a font of knowledge.

There are several of the nuttier fundamentalist Protestant sects that think Catholics are Pagans or Satanists.

jaguar · 07-23-2005, 10:32 AM

There was an excellent article in the Independent today (at the fairly insane price of 5.50SFr over here grr) from a columnist who lives and works in beruit. His hyphothisis on the motives for suicide bombers in this scenario makes more sense than any Iàve heard. Shortened right down, it goes something like this.

Like early western explorers were quite taken by idea of harems but disgusted by other practices in the east, many muslims today are very tempted by the sexual freedoms and other freedoms of and living in the west. His example was a turkish student that studied over here and slept with is girlfriend but then got mummy to find him a nice turkish virgin to marry when he went home. That's the happy ending to this cultural oddity. The unhappy one is when the desire leads to self-loathing and guilt, and a spell in an old-school pakistani madrasa doesn't hurt here. The person ends up wanting to punish the society they percieve as having led them astray as well as destroy themselves.

The bomb makers are of course, a slightly different story, they are that hard-core of extremists that exist around any ideology, from my earlier socialist/communist example to facism, christianity or animal rights. I think these two ideas togher paint the best picture of the mental landscape of islamic extremism, particularly in the UK and essentailly, most of europe I've seen yet.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-23-2005, 11:33 AM

Makes sense, Jag.
Here is manifests itself in slightly safer scenerios, every day.
I screw up.
I sue you.
I win money.
That proves it was your fault and I didn't really screw up.

Of course if I don't win money I may have to blow stuff up.

wolf · 07-23-2005, 12:25 PM

I don't understand the part about terrorism that says that Muslim Extremists can gain some kind of advantage by blowing up 73 Egyptians and 10 folks from other countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, Italy, and Great Britain.

lookout123 · 07-23-2005, 12:31 PM

blow up people from other countries sothat those other countries will place pressure on the US.

jaguar · 07-23-2005, 01:25 PM

to do what exactly? it's frigging egypt. That incident and those like it are rooted in the state of egyptian politics or lack thereof.

wolf · 07-23-2005, 01:34 PM

Precisely my point ...

07-22-2005, 10:56 PM	#46
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	HOLY SHIT! What do the Prod's say? What do the Jews say? tw, why do you hate people? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum Last edited by Trilby; 07-22-2005 at 10:59 PM.

07-22-2005, 11:18 PM	#47
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	aw shucks tw, you sure danced circles around me again. i sure hope to be brilliant like you some day. i suppose if i barf the last book i read into a post, it would be a good start. just so you know - my troll comment was just to rattle your cage. this comment gets a little closer to an insult. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-22-2005, 11:35 PM	#49
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	yawn the only person i've heard who has a broader brush for their stereotyping would be your pal Rush. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-22-2005, 11:42 PM	#50
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	Stepping in as devil's advocate for a moment, I, too, have heard the Catholic church described as pagan. If I can find a cite, I'll post it. Ah, HERE it is. You may now resume your squabble. :p Last edited by marichiko; 07-22-2005 at 11:46 PM. Reason: to add link

07-23-2005, 02:22 AM	#51
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I'm not sure you can refer to the "Bible Discernment Ministries" as a reliable source. I'm not disputing any claims that the Roman Catholic Church has pagan or paganized elements, but, well, the Catholic Church is what the Protestants were protesting about ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

07-23-2005, 04:27 AM	#52
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	I was lazy. It was the first one out of about 600 that popped up when I googled "catholic church" and "pagan." Anyhow, I thought that was just sort of a given. Those clever early Christian missionaries just overlaid their doctrine on top of the pagan worship that was prevalent at the time, so we got Christmas instead of the winter solstice, Easter in place of the spring equinox, etc. I forget what Martin Luther's exact bitch was when he nailed those 95 theses to the local Catholic university's door. I think mostly he was upset that the pope back there in Rome got to be the utilmate authority on the latest insider news from God. The Catholic Encyclopedia hints that Luther may have been a psychopath, but they're probably a bit biased. Talk about thread drift! Last edited by marichiko; 07-23-2005 at 04:30 AM.

07-23-2005, 07:47 AM	#53
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	[quote=tw] Meanwhile, more people could have been killed in London yesterday. Why? Because religion is so good for people? You tell me who really promotes hate. I have simply carried the message - hatred promoted by religious concepts. Do these mythical gods really exist? Then why do their doctrines promote murder - a hatred for mankind?[/QUOT I never intimated that religion was "good for people", I don't subscribe to any organized religion. I know that a lot of people promote hate and it's ususally the love of filthy lucre that drives it. They may wrap themselves in the robes of this-or-that religion, but it always comes down to money. But you didn't answer the question. Why do YOU hate people? Not why do you hate religion. It's easy to hate religion. It's easy to generalize--you spank cellarites and say they are generalizing the beliefs of the muslims but then you go and generalize Catholics, right-wingers, etc. You do the very thing you say you despise. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

07-23-2005, 10:32 AM	#55
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	There was an excellent article in the Independent today (at the fairly insane price of 5.50SFr over here grr) from a columnist who lives and works in beruit. His hyphothisis on the motives for suicide bombers in this scenario makes more sense than any Iàve heard. Shortened right down, it goes something like this. Like early western explorers were quite taken by idea of harems but disgusted by other practices in the east, many muslims today are very tempted by the sexual freedoms and other freedoms of and living in the west. His example was a turkish student that studied over here and slept with is girlfriend but then got mummy to find him a nice turkish virgin to marry when he went home. That's the happy ending to this cultural oddity. The unhappy one is when the desire leads to self-loathing and guilt, and a spell in an old-school pakistani madrasa doesn't hurt here. The person ends up wanting to punish the society they percieve as having led them astray as well as destroy themselves. The bomb makers are of course, a slightly different story, they are that hard-core of extremists that exist around any ideology, from my earlier socialist/communist example to facism, christianity or animal rights. I think these two ideas togher paint the best picture of the mental landscape of islamic extremism, particularly in the UK and essentailly, most of europe I've seen yet. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-23-2005, 11:33 AM	#56
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Makes sense, Jag. Here is manifests itself in slightly safer scenerios, every day. I screw up. I sue you. I win money. That proves it was your fault and I didn't really screw up. Of course if I don't win money I may have to blow stuff up. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-23-2005, 12:25 PM	#57
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I don't understand the part about terrorism that says that Muslim Extremists can gain some kind of advantage by blowing up 73 Egyptians and 10 folks from other countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, Italy, and Great Britain. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

07-23-2005, 12:31 PM	#58
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	blow up people from other countries sothat those other countries will place pressure on the US. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-23-2005, 01:25 PM	#59
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	to do what exactly? it's frigging egypt. That incident and those like it are rooted in the state of egyptian politics or lack thereof. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-23-2005, 01:34 PM	#60
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Precisely my point ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

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