2/28/2005: The injured USS San Francisco - Page 3

xoxoxoBruce · 03-02-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw
Existance of that underwater moutain was known. But due to the cost, charts have not been updated with recently discovered underwater topology. I believe this data was obtained from satellites.

I had also read the Navy was aware that there were a number of uncharted obstacles in that region. They were, however, unconcerned because of the sophisticated electronics all US Warships carry should warn them of potential hazards.
I guess they forgot about full tilt boogie training runs.

hampor · 03-03-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I had also read the Navy was aware that there were a number of uncharted obstacles in that region. They were, however, unconcerned because of the sophisticated electronics all US Warships carry should warn them of potential hazards.
I guess they forgot about full tilt boogie training runs.

This is just a guess, but maybe the captain was demoted for running without the sonar turned on. Hard to say.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-03-2005, 08:22 PM

My understanding is it doesn't work when they run at speed because the boat makes so much noise.

Troubleshooter · 03-03-2005, 10:13 PM

It's sort of like the faster you go, closer something has to be before it becomes noticable. Think of it like trying to hear something in the car with your head out of the window.

jimbo · 03-26-2005, 05:58 PM

This is an older submarine, and did not have bow planes or vertical launch tubes. The situation could have been much different if she did.

No water entered the people tank. Flooding is bad, and she might not have survived that. The sonar sphere seen in the diagram can be accessed from inside the submarine, but that hatch is of course pressure proof and is kept dogged at all time except when necessary to enter for maintenance of the computer equipment there. Entry is only made while going slow, shallow depth.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-26-2005, 07:27 PM

Hi Jimbo, welcome to the cellar.

You're saying the diagram in post #6 is not this sub, but a later design?

Elspode · 03-27-2005, 12:51 PM

I just saw a tiny piece in the KC Star Friday that said several members of a sub crew were punished for running into an underwater obstacle. Presumably, they were members of the San Francisco crew?

BrianR · 03-28-2005, 10:41 AM

yes. I might have a link or story on this in the archives...I'll get back to you on it

Undertoad · 03-31-2005, 05:50 PM

Wow! Strategy Page has a new set of photos with higher-res shots including the area under the tarp.

hampor · 05-09-2005, 11:25 AM

According to Yahoo, they've issued the report on the collision.

Although the mountain was not there on the particular charts that they were using, there was an indication of a navigation hazard in the area on other set of charts that they were supposed to look at as well.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-09-2005, 08:00 PM

Those "other charts" must be the satellite data I read about. They've been getting much better at looking beneath the surface with satellites.

Elspode · 05-10-2005, 12:47 PM

I can hear the Captain of the vessel now...

"$150,000,000.00 to fix a dented front fender! That's outrageous! Do you know what this will do to my insurance rates?!"

tw · 05-10-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

I can hear the Captain of the vessel now...

"$150,000,000.00 to fix a dented front fender! That's outrageous! Do you know what this will do to my insurance rates?!"

His insurance rates are probably the least of his problems. This clearly is a carrer buster. He need start looking for a new carrer - as I understand how the system works.

tw · 05-18-2005, 12:32 PM

Apparently damage to the USS San Francisco was more dangerous than was originally reported. Forward ballast tank was compromised. The boat remained stuck on the bottom, stern up, for some minutes before it finally and slowly floated to the surface. From the NY Times of 18 May 2005:
Adrift 500 Feet Under the Sea, a Minute Was an Eternity

Attached to the article is an interactive graphic entitled "Fighting to Save a Fallen Sailor". Notice the location of all forward ballast tanks.

Also confirmed by the article are that maps did not show the obstruction. Submarines move blind. They are dependant on maps that really only report 10% of the ocean.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-18-2005, 04:30 PM

Good find

I can't imagine what it was like down there, waiting and waiting, for the ship to rise. And when it did still not knowing if they would make it.

03-03-2005, 08:22 PM	#33
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	My understanding is it doesn't work when they run at speed because the boat makes so much noise. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-03-2005, 10:13 PM	#34
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	It's sort of like the faster you go, closer something has to be before it becomes noticable. Think of it like trying to hear something in the car with your head out of the window. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

03-26-2005, 05:58 PM	#35
jimbo Kinda New Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1	about SSN711 This is an older submarine, and did not have bow planes or vertical launch tubes. The situation could have been much different if she did. No water entered the people tank. Flooding is bad, and she might not have survived that. The sonar sphere seen in the diagram can be accessed from inside the submarine, but that hatch is of course pressure proof and is kept dogged at all time except when necessary to enter for maintenance of the computer equipment there. Entry is only made while going slow, shallow depth.

03-26-2005, 07:27 PM	#36
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hi Jimbo, welcome to the cellar. You're saying the diagram in post #6 is not this sub, but a later design? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-27-2005, 12:51 PM	#37
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I just saw a tiny piece in the KC Star Friday that said several members of a sub crew were punished for running into an underwater obstacle. Presumably, they were members of the San Francisco crew? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

03-28-2005, 10:41 AM	#38
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	yes. I might have a link or story on this in the archives...I'll get back to you on it

03-31-2005, 05:50 PM	#39
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Wow! Strategy Page has a new set of photos with higher-res shots including the area under the tarp.

05-09-2005, 11:25 AM	#40
hampor Colloquialist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SiliValley Posts: 75	new report out According to Yahoo, they've issued the report on the collision. Although the mountain was not there on the particular charts that they were using, there was an indication of a navigation hazard in the area on other set of charts that they were supposed to look at as well.

05-09-2005, 08:00 PM	#41
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Those "other charts" must be the satellite data I read about. They've been getting much better at looking beneath the surface with satellites. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-10-2005, 12:47 PM	#42
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I can hear the Captain of the vessel now... "$150,000,000.00 to fix a dented front fender! That's outrageous! Do you know what this will do to my insurance rates?!" __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

05-18-2005, 12:32 PM	#44
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Apparently damage to the USS San Francisco was more dangerous than was originally reported. Forward ballast tank was compromised. The boat remained stuck on the bottom, stern up, for some minutes before it finally and slowly floated to the surface. From the NY Times of 18 May 2005: Adrift 500 Feet Under the Sea, a Minute Was an Eternity Attached to the article is an interactive graphic entitled "Fighting to Save a Fallen Sailor". Notice the location of all forward ballast tanks. Also confirmed by the article are that maps did not show the obstruction. Submarines move blind. They are dependant on maps that really only report 10% of the ocean.

05-18-2005, 04:30 PM	#45
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Good find I can't imagine what it was like down there, waiting and waiting, for the ship to rise. And when it did still not knowing if they would make it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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