I defaulted to politics on this one, I was torn.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Me too.
It's like dismissing a post out of hand because it doesn't link an impressive expert. Read the words, ponder the thoughts, then if you disagree with the message that's your privilege.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Me too.

I saw the beauty of the words. The compassion it taught, the ability to love others who hate you, etc. There truly is no other work like the Gospels.

2 John

1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Hebrews

10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

[iamthewalrus109]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

I saw the beauty of the words. The compassion it taught, the ability to love others who hate you, etc. There truly is no other work like the Gospels.

2 John

1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Hebrews

10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

You want to start quoting the Bible now? Are you mad. First off I was refering specifically to the Gospels. Although there are moments in John that are a bit puritanical, there are many other instances, especially in Luke, Mark and Matthew that are beautiful treatises on compassion and good will. It's what one sees in anything is the issue here. Some see a bunch of holy rollers expressing self-rightegousness and damnation to all those who don't believe, but that's not what I see. As far as Hebrews is concerned, if you know anything about Judeo-Christian docrtine percieving the Gospels as part of the Bible, God is vengeful and Jesus is merciful, it's a balancing act. If you look closely the appearance of Jesus is signifigant because it rails against convential Jewish dogma as it stood at that time. Either a construction or fact, for one to read the Bible and constantly outline and highlight the parts of condemation is still short sighted and pesimistic. It's a matter of opinion obviously. Some brief examples of compassion and beauty: John 8:1-11 is in reference to Jesus' actions in saving Mary Magdalene from that famous stoning scene. Also LUKE 4:28-29 refers to Jesus' compassion in the stoning issue. MARK 5:21-30 64-65 - Where Jesus is touched by a woman with a terminial infriment and is healed, is also one of the most touching moments in the Gospels. MATTHEW 5 69-70 - Jesus sermon on the mount, how can you not be moved by this piece. As someone who has been through the Catholic school system, I should be the one tearing down Jesus, or God, but I refuse. I was taught the Bible since I was 5 or 6, and I still feel the same about it today. I was told by countless nuns that I was going to hell, many times quoting passages from John, but I refuse to submit to such condemnation. I do my best to treat people as noted in these religious teachings, not out of fear for my soul, but out of the compelling nature of the teachings and the way they touched my heart, plain and simple. Accordingly, if you look at the sum of Jesus' teachings, he wanted people to love each other because we are all God's children, in effect no different than him, only difference being he had to die for the sins of others. The pain and suffering of Christ is also an area of great inspiration, many condemed others in his name, but Christ always had mercy on those who "knew not what they did"


-Walrus

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

You want to start quoting the Bible now?

I quote the bible all of the time, as a matter of fact I used it extensively in an article I wrote about people trying to ban Harry Potter from public schools.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

Are you mad.

Am I mad? I'm not even mildly upset. As to the allusion to insanity, I've been called pathologically sane by some people. I guess they are referring to the fact that nobody else they know can be so dispassionate or unemotional. Who knows?

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

First off I was refering specifically to the Gospels. Although there are moments in John that are a bit puritanical, there are many other instances, especially in Luke, Mark and Matthew that are beautiful treatises on compassion and good will. It's what one sees in anything is the issue here. Some see a bunch of holy rollers expressing self-rightegousness and damnation to all those who don't believe, but that's not what I see.

I will agree that those things can be found there, but you cannot deny the abuse, intolerance, prejudice, discrimination, misogyny, etc that they contain as well.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

As far as Hebrews is concerned, if you know anything about Judeo-Christian docrtine percieving the Gospels as part of the Bible, God is vengeful and Jesus is merciful, it's a balancing act. If you look closely the appearance of Jesus is signifigant because it rails against convential Jewish dogma as it stood at that time.

So you're saying that the religious doctrine changed to meet the political needs of the times.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

Either a construction or fact, for one to read the Bible and constantly outline and highlight the parts of condemation is still short sighted and pesimistic.

*presto chango*

Either a construction or fact, for one to read the Bible and constantly outline and highlight the parts of absolution is still short sighted and optimistic.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

As someone who has been through the Catholic school system, I should be the one tearing down Jesus, or God, but I refuse. I was taught the Bible since I was 5 or 6, and I still feel the same about it today.

So you're willing to admit to a great amount of intellecual inertia and naivete.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

I was told by countless nuns that I was going to hell, many times quoting passages from John, but I refuse to submit to such condemnation.

Why aren't willing to accept that the people who are willing to submit their lives to the doctrine you so willingly admit to may be right considering that they're whole life is qrapped up in discovering its mysteries?

They have the same, or better, resources to draw from, as well as more time to devote to such endeavors.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

I do my best to treat people as noted in these religious teachings, not out of fear for my soul, but out of the compelling nature of the teachings and the way they touched my heart, plain and simple.

It does no good to only apply the warm fuzzy parts of your doctrine. It states very clearly and in many places how you are to treat the non-believer.

I haven't had to run anybody from my property for hurling stones yet.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus109

Accordingly, if you look at the sum of Jesus' teachings, he wanted people to love each other because we are all God's children, in effect no different than him, only difference being he had to die for the sins of others. The pain and suffering of Christ is also an area of great inspiration, many condemed others in his name, but Christ always had mercy on those who "knew not what they did"


-Walrus

As touching as it may be, it doesn't work for me on too many levels. I understand social engineering when I see it. I see ethnic ideological justification, and all of the other things I mentioned before.

If such a doctrine works for you that is fine, but I set higher intellectual standards for myself. I don't mean this as a condemnation (much) but if you want to have faith I'm happy for you. Don't try to rationalize it within the framework of your own doctrine. A word cannot be used in its own definition.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

I quote the bible all of the time, as a matter of fact I used it extensively in an article I wrote about people trying to ban Harry Potter from public schools.

Are you trying to ban Harry Potter or are you fighting against a ban of Harry Potter?

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Are you trying to ban Harry Potter or are you fighting against a ban of Harry Potter?

I'm against the banning of of the Potter books.