What do we do with this piece of shit?

Nothing But Net · 05-07-2002, 10:59 PM

Assuming he is proven guilty, what should happen to him, even though nobody has died, yet...

<a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/topstory/1399694">Luke J. Helder</a>

<img src="http://www.chron.com/content/news/photos/02/05/07/helder3.jpg">

Domestic terrorist, stupid, yes, but what the fuck! If guilty, fry this bastard! I want him dead!

Flame on...

Hubris Boy · 05-07-2002, 11:46 PM

Mmmmm... get him a new tie and a better haircut to start with. Sheesh. There's just no excuse for looking like that.

05-07-2002, 11:54 PM

Here is my knee. Watch it jerk.

Nothing But Net · 05-07-2002, 11:57 PM

- 03#

joecacti · 05-08-2002, 10:12 AM

in the grand scheme of things, this guy is just a little misguided. i really don't think frying him is going to help. as a matter of fact, i think about 5 years in the slammer and someone to talk to about his problems will be quite enough to set him straight.

what's most sad about this whole thing is the mob mentality. i disagree with the whole media onslaught over this. i think that car chases should not be broadcast nationwide, not because it might encourage others to do the same, but because it's sensational. it's taking real life and making it entertainment, which just seems wrong (and yes, the real world is wrong, but for a slightly different reason).

i was saddened when i went to his band (apathy)'s web page yesterday, and massive amounts of people, without proof of guilt, were disparaging this guy, who might not even have been the same guy alleged by the FBI... the hate spewing from these people was unimaginable. and more than that it was righteous, and inflammatory. and righteousness is gross. inflammatory is just stupid.

so basically i'm saying that it seems like there's alot of stupid, ignorant people out there, and maybe i'm one of them, but isn't it nice to point the finger at other people and say ha ha, or 'you stupid person, i hope you die for what you did/said/thought,' or 'you're the reason everything is wrong with our community/country/society'? We all need to take responsibility for ourselves and our own actions and watch and listen to the rest of the world, but keep our pie-holes shut until we have something contructive to say...

or something...

05-08-2002, 10:50 AM

The problem is that we are emotional beings. NBN lets emotion, not logic, guide his thought. He's not alone.

In fact, I would contend that whoever is leaving these bombs is acting without logic but with emotion. They are upset at the current state of affairs and want to force a change. But they're going about it in a manner which is irrational.

Sort of how NBN started this thread. Already labeling him a "piece of shit" without knowing whether or not he is guilty of anything. He may very well be, but he may not be as well. I doubt that NBN has any inside information on this (like the Director of the CIA would), but he is perfectly happy and willing to assume that the accused is guilty. That's rather disappointing, but not surprising - NBN has always acted emotionally instead of logically and rationally, and we shouldn't expect anything better from him. It's typical.

warch · 05-08-2002, 11:34 AM

Jail time, mental help.

05-08-2002, 11:48 AM

Personally, I agree with you, if it is found that he is guilty of what he stands accused of.

I have done a 180 on the death penalty though. Whereas a year ago I was furious over Timothy McVeigh's execution being delayed a month, I no longer believe that we should be killing prisoners. It was Timothy McVeigh that changed that in me.

Undertoad · 05-08-2002, 02:59 PM

If this helps at all, one report said that it sounds like schizophrenia. This illness most commonly strikes between age 16-25, and more likely men than women in that age group.

Xugumad · 05-08-2002, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
I have done a 180 on the death penalty though [... ] I no longer believe that we should be killing prisoners.

Welcome to adulthood, and to the human race.

That may sound obnoxious, but it's heart-felt sincerity. I am genuinely happy for you.

X.

Nothing But Net · 05-08-2002, 10:55 PM

If nobody has died yet, it wasn't because he wasn't trying. Suppose you were going out to get your mail, the mailbox blows up, causing you to lose a perfectly good eye?

Would you feel any compassion for this asshole?

dham', if you want a poster boy against the death penalty, you could choose somebody better than Timothy McVeigh.

Have you already forgotten the Death Row guy I thought was getting fucked over?

Sheesh...

p.s.: he has confessed to the crimes

05-08-2002, 11:24 PM

As I'm sure you know, I'm uniquely qualified to comment on losing an eye.

It's still not a death-worthy offense.

Period.

If you want to argue it, let some one shoot you in the face with a high-powered BB rifle, give yourself seven years to settle down, and then we'll talk about it.

Timothy McVeigh is exactly the example I want. Besides the fact that it was he who changed my view of the death penalty, he is a good example - simply because he killed so many. Surely everyone would agree that if there was ever anyone that deserved it, it was him. But he did it for a reason, to make a point - and that is, who is right to decide who lives and who dies? Who is qualified to make that choice? How can we deem it "okay" for the government to take life but say it's wrong for citizens to do so? Who makes the deicision as to which murderer should receive the death penalty? Imperfect human beings are choosing whether or not a life should be terminated. There's too much risk and <b>emotion</b> to be able to make logical and rational decisions.

You are largely ignorant of the circumstances surrounding the mailbox bombings. So am I. Neither of us is qualified to make a choice as to whether or not he's an "asshole", whether or not he deserves to die, etc. We simply do not have the information to make such a choice, and you very simply do not have the ability to make decisions unemotionally, as you have demonstrated in the past and demonstrate now.

How can you say that he was trying to kill? How can you be certain what his intentions were? It's entirely possible that he made low-powered explosives for the express purpose of <b>not</b> killing but still gaining attention. This is exactly my point - you specifically, and a large portion of the American public, are willing to jump to conclusions without bothering to examine the situation and the evidence. You eagerly swallow down whatever is being fed to you and then ask for more.

All Indians, No Chiefs.

Nothing But Net · 05-08-2002, 11:40 PM

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. If you lost your other eye, you would be totally blind. And pissed off!

Why, because it happened for no reason. Believe it or not, I can understand the 9/11 terrorists crashing into the Pentagon. That was a truly legitimate military target. But when you go fucking with heartland Americans (or those poor souls in the WTC, or Tel-Aviv, for that matter) for no other reason but terror, you've lost me, pal!

Not to be patronizing, but when you turn 40 and have seen a little more of the world, you will understand better...

Xugumad · 05-09-2002, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nothing But Net
Not to be patronizing, but when you turn 40 and have seen a little more of the world, you will understand better...

"The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom."
-- H.L. Mencken

Age brings dogma, and unchanging opinions. If you've believed that XYZ is wrong for 15 years, you aren't going to change your opinion now, even if you are 'proven' wrong.

"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
-- Winston Churchill

Besides, if you invoke age as the arbiter of issues, Maggie's opinion will count more than yours, anyway. Let's hear it..

X.

juju · 05-09-2002, 05:48 AM

What I thought was particulary funny was that when he was first pulled over, he said to the police officer "I didn't mean to hurt anyone". To which the police officer replied, "That's great -- but I pulled you over for speeding".

Doh!

05-07-2002, 10:59 PM	#1
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	What do we do with this piece of shit? Assuming he is proven guilty, what should happen to him, even though nobody has died, yet... <a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/topstory/1399694">Luke J. Helder</a> <img src="http://www.chron.com/content/news/photos/02/05/07/helder3.jpg"> Domestic terrorist, stupid, yes, but what the fuck! If guilty, fry this bastard! I want him dead! Flame on...

05-07-2002, 11:46 PM	#2
Hubris Boy Keymaster of Gozer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Patapsco Drainage Basin Posts: 471	re: What do we do with this piece of shit? Mmmmm... get him a new tie and a better haircut to start with. Sheesh. There's just no excuse for looking like that.

05-07-2002, 11:57 PM	#4
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	Fat Bastard! - 03# Attached Images

05-08-2002, 10:12 AM	#5
joecacti Fellow-Commoner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: dc Posts: 10	you know what? in the grand scheme of things, this guy is just a little misguided. i really don't think frying him is going to help. as a matter of fact, i think about 5 years in the slammer and someone to talk to about his problems will be quite enough to set him straight. what's most sad about this whole thing is the mob mentality. i disagree with the whole media onslaught over this. i think that car chases should not be broadcast nationwide, not because it might encourage others to do the same, but because it's sensational. it's taking real life and making it entertainment, which just seems wrong (and yes, the real world is wrong, but for a slightly different reason). i was saddened when i went to his band (apathy)'s web page yesterday, and massive amounts of people, without proof of guilt, were disparaging this guy, who might not even have been the same guy alleged by the FBI... the hate spewing from these people was unimaginable. and more than that it was righteous, and inflammatory. and righteousness is gross. inflammatory is just stupid. so basically i'm saying that it seems like there's alot of stupid, ignorant people out there, and maybe i'm one of them, but isn't it nice to point the finger at other people and say ha ha, or 'you stupid person, i hope you die for what you did/said/thought,' or 'you're the reason everything is wrong with our community/country/society'? We all need to take responsibility for ourselves and our own actions and watch and listen to the rest of the world, but keep our pie-holes shut until we have something contructive to say... or something...

05-08-2002, 11:40 PM	#13
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	But you're too forgiving of the bastard, Dham! That was exactly the point I was trying to make. If you lost your other eye, you would be totally blind. And pissed off! Why, because it happened for no reason. Believe it or not, I can understand the 9/11 terrorists crashing into the Pentagon. That was a truly legitimate military target. But when you go fucking with heartland Americans (or those poor souls in the WTC, or Tel-Aviv, for that matter) for no other reason but terror, you've lost me, pal! Not to be patronizing, but when you turn 40 and have seen a little more of the world, you will understand better... Last edited by Nothing But Net; 05-08-2002 at 11:55 PM.

05-07-2002, 11:54 PM	#3
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Here is my knee. Watch it jerk.

05-08-2002, 10:50 AM	#6
dave Guest Posts: n/a	The problem is that we are emotional beings. NBN lets emotion, not logic, guide his thought. He's not alone. In fact, I would contend that whoever is leaving these bombs is acting without logic but with emotion. They are upset at the current state of affairs and want to force a change. But they're going about it in a manner which is irrational. Sort of how NBN started this thread. Already labeling him a "piece of shit" without knowing whether or not he is guilty of anything. He may very well be, but he may not be as well. I doubt that NBN has any inside information on this (like the Director of the CIA would), but he is perfectly happy and willing to assume that the accused is guilty. That's rather disappointing, but not surprising - NBN has always acted emotionally instead of logically and rationally, and we shouldn't expect anything better from him. It's typical.

05-08-2002, 11:34 AM	#7
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Jail time, mental help.

05-08-2002, 11:48 AM	#8
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Personally, I agree with you, if it is found that he is guilty of what he stands accused of. I have done a 180 on the death penalty though. Whereas a year ago I was furious over Timothy McVeigh's execution being delayed a month, I no longer believe that we should be killing prisoners. It was Timothy McVeigh that changed that in me.

05-08-2002, 02:59 PM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If this helps at all, one report said that it sounds like schizophrenia. This illness most commonly strikes between age 16-25, and more likely men than women in that age group.

05-08-2002, 10:55 PM	#11
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	If nobody has died yet, it wasn't because he wasn't trying. Suppose you were going out to get your mail, the mailbox blows up, causing you to lose a perfectly good eye? Would you feel any compassion for this asshole? dham', if you want a poster boy against the death penalty, you could choose somebody better than Timothy McVeigh. Have you already forgotten the Death Row guy I thought was getting fucked over? Sheesh... p.s.: he has confessed to the crimes

05-08-2002, 11:24 PM	#12
dave Guest Posts: n/a	As I'm sure you know, I'm uniquely qualified to comment on losing an eye. It's still not a death-worthy offense. Period. If you want to argue it, let some one shoot you in the face with a high-powered BB rifle, give yourself seven years to settle down, and then we'll talk about it. Timothy McVeigh is exactly the example I want. Besides the fact that it was he who changed my view of the death penalty, he is a good example - simply because he killed so many. Surely everyone would agree that if there was ever anyone that deserved it, it was him. But he did it for a reason, to make a point - and that is, who is right to decide who lives and who dies? Who is qualified to make that choice? How can we deem it "okay" for the government to take life but say it's wrong for citizens to do so? Who makes the deicision as to which murderer should receive the death penalty? Imperfect human beings are choosing whether or not a life should be terminated. There's too much risk and <b>emotion</b> to be able to make logical and rational decisions. You are largely ignorant of the circumstances surrounding the mailbox bombings. So am I. Neither of us is qualified to make a choice as to whether or not he's an "asshole", whether or not he deserves to die, etc. We simply do not have the information to make such a choice, and you very simply do not have the ability to make decisions unemotionally, as you have demonstrated in the past and demonstrate now. How can you say that he was trying to kill? How can you be certain what his intentions were? It's entirely possible that he made low-powered explosives for the express purpose of <b>not</b> killing but still gaining attention. This is exactly my point - you specifically, and a large portion of the American public, are willing to jump to conclusions without bothering to examine the situation and the evidence. You eagerly swallow down whatever is being fed to you and then ask for more. All Indians, No Chiefs.

05-09-2002, 05:48 AM	#15
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	What I thought was particulary funny was that when he was first pulled over, he said to the police officer "I didn't mean to hurt anyone". To which the police officer replied, "That's great -- but I pulled you over for speeding". Doh!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)