Critique of Black Culture

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

This is my generation's calling: we will simultaneously fucking clean up the baby boomer's mess AND take the blame for it. Knowing the truth, I feel pride for us.)

You realize that you are a baby boomer (1946-64), right?

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by sycamore

How so?

What exactly is contributed by black culture that seperates it from other cultures? What sets it apart so much that people are willing to kill each other over it? What is so important that people are willing to generate an arbitrary and unnecessary divide in american culture based on it? Is it some great change in paradigm that is shaping a better tomorrow? A new math that gives us the Unified Field Theory? An easily learned language that will make all men brothers? A weapon so hideous that all cultures agree to end war?

All I'm asking, and this applies to all of the associated parties, is what is so important about skin color that it's necessary to make up cultural differences when it's more important that we generate a set of synergistic commonalities instead?

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What exactly is contributed by black culture that seperates it from other cultures?

You essentially already asked this question in a previous post, which I answered.

What sets it apart so much that people are willing to kill each other over it?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. How do you know that people are actually killing each other over black culture?

What is so important that people are willing to generate an arbitrary and unnecessary divide in american culture based on it?

I believe that black and other minority cultures developed due to a forced divide by the powers that be back in the day. If there was any arbitrariness involved, I would say that it was on the side of the powers that be. Those cultures remain today because they provide a rich history and legacy for those people not necessarily covered by mainstream culture...plus they preserve the culture and help ensure that it continues. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

All I'm asking, and this applies to all of the associated parties, is what is so important about skin color that it's necessary to make up cultural differences when it's more important that we generate a set of synergistic commonalities instead?

See my response above. I'm not sure that synergistic commonalities are so important.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by sycamore

You realize that you are a baby boomer (1946-64), right?

No, I go by Strauss & Howe's 13th Generation 1961-1981.

survived a hurried childhood of divorce, latchkeys, open classrooms and devil-child movies. They came of age curtailing the earlier rise in youth crime and fall in test scores — yet heard themselves denounced as so wild and stupid as to put The Nation At Risk. As young adults, maneuvering thru a sexual battlescape of AIDS and blighted courtship rituals, they date and marry cautiously. In jobs, they embrace risk and prefer free agency over loyal corporatism. From grunge to hip-hop, their culture reveals a hardened edge. Politically, they lean toward pragmatism and non-affiliation and would rather volunteer than vote. Widely criticized as "slackers," the non-techies among them have faced a Reality Bites economy of declining young-adult living standards.

[elSicomoro]

I think I'll keep the '46-'64 years for the Boomers along with Gen X ('65-'75 or '79 or '81...no one seems to agree on this one like they do on the Boomers). Gen X was a great punk band...The 13th Generation sounds like some crappy '70s lite rock band.

[lookout123]

syc - i don't naively believe this nation was once united and it has become divided. but once upon a time the goal of those less fortunate, due to segregation and economics, was to join the ranks of the fortunate. to be a part of what they were missing out on. that was the whole point of the civil rights movement. a group of people were unfairly denied access to opportunities simply because the color of their skin. the laws have changed. access is there. unfortunately, there are people that prefer crying about lack of opportunity, instead of taking advantage of the opportunities already available. achievement isn't easy, but it is possible. it shouldn't be easy. i have yet to see a successful person of any color who is obsessed with the roadblocks in front of them. most successful people don't have time to stand and bitch about why life is unfair to them. they are too busy working toward a goal. they may acknowledge the difficulties along the way but they focus on the possibilities in front of them. and i think that is what bill cosby and others have been trying to say.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by sycamore

I think I'll keep the '46-'64 years for the Boomers along with Gen X ('65-'75 or '79 or '81...no one seems to agree on this one like they do on the Boomers). Gen X was a great punk band...The 13th Generation sounds like some crappy '70s lite rock band.

Born 1943-1960 An idealist generation, often stressed out. Some sources suggest true baby boomers were born between 1946 to 1964 after World War II to experience the pop media revolution and the ideal of peace in our times.

Not everyone agrees.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not everyone agrees.

Put it this way...quite a few people agree that the Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. The same cannot be said for Generation X.

Bastard.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And quite a few people disagree, saying it's '43 to '60. It appears the social security people are among that group. :p

[elSicomoro]

Who do you trust more? SSA or AARP?

Originally Posted by lookout123

the laws have changed. access is there.

Laws have indeed changed, and I think they're helping. But like I said last night, you can't legislate thoughts and emotions.

unfortunately, there are people that prefer crying about lack of opportunity, instead of taking advantage of the opportunities already available. achievement isn't easy, but it is possible. it shouldn't be easy.

What you call "crying about lack of opportunity" others see as expressions of legitimate concerns.

i have yet to see a successful person of any color who is obsessed with the roadblocks in front of them.

I happen to know quite a few successful people that are concerned about the roadblocks that they and their people continue to face, namely my in-laws.

most successful people don't have time to stand and bitch about why life is unfair to them. they are too busy working toward a goal. they may acknowledge the difficulties along the way but they focus on the possibilities in front of them. and i think that is what bill cosby and others have been trying to say.

Similar to what I said above, what you call "standing and bitching about why life is unfair to them" some see as legitimate complaints, concerns and/or voicing opinion.

I think a lot of what Cosby has said has been spot on, though some of it has been just plain silly.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by sycamore

You realize that you are a baby boomer (1946-64), right?

We didn't used to be.

The cutoff was 1959/60 ... I was very proud to be part of the unnamed generation that was sandwiched in between the boomers and Generation X.

[Undertoad]

I can describe the change in a way that makes it obvious to you specifically Syc; dig this;

In autumn 1982 I started DJing dance parties at my college. That year there were two "staples" that we had to play or there would be trouble amongst the drunken sorority sisters. One was "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", the other was "Working for the Weekend".

These were kids who thought the Cars were "edgy" and the Police were "too weird". Adam and the Ants, or Adam Ant solo, would enrage them. Billy Idol released his first solo album in 1982 and it contained "White Wedding" and "Dancing with Myself" and it DID NOT PLAY. They HATED it! Those drunken sorority sisters were born in 1960-61.

By 1985, though, things changed. I could see it happening. By the end of 1985 we were able to play Depeche Mode, and by 1986 they became critical. Idol's first album finally played and then and then his initial EP with "Mony Mony" suddenly reappeared, and THAT became the song we HAD to play. Those drunken sorority sisters were born in 1963-64, the front for the arrival of the new culture.

Or, take Elvis Costello. Did you know his ONLY charting song was "Everyday I Write the Book" in 1983? Before that, no EC song made the "Top 40". Because the baby boomers couldn't relate so well, but the 13ers/Xers understood.

But the true anthem of the early Xers is "How Soon is Now". This brilliant song includes as original a signature guitar riff as you'll ever hear... hard and edgy and a little frightening, it's as closely tied to the song as the opening of "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction". But is there a single "classic rock" station in the USA that has played it ONCE? No. That right there is the defining cultural line; if you dug it, you are 13er/Xer, if not, you are Boomer.

It took until 1993 for another anthem to appear to represent the second wave of Xers.

[elSicomoro]

That's interesting, UT. I don't think Strauss & Howe are phony at all, and I apologize if it seemed like I was totally dismissing them.

Having only been a child in the early 80s, I don't have such a detailed reference. From what I've seen, most people over 40 don't get Metallica, Nirvana or Depeche Mode. Many people 25-40 do. Right now, a lot of kids under 25 love bands like Chevelle and The Used...I'm 29, and I don't care much for them.

[xoxoxoBruce]

What you call "crying about lack of opportunity" others see as expressions of legitimate concerns.

The "expressions of legitimate concerns" is the right, if not duty, of every thinking person. The difference lies in if they are expressing these concerns while working to improve their lot or while waiting for someone else (gumint?) to do it for them.

aside- From what I've seen the best shot at equal treatment for minorities and women is through labor unions. While not perfect, because they are run by people, Unions are small enough organizations that if you feel you're not being treated fairly you can interact personally with the leadership. The Union keeps the Company from abusing you (at least abusing you more than others) and if the Union is abusing you, both the Company and the Feds are willing to step in on your behalf. I don't want to derail this thread so if you have a beef with unions please start a new thread.

[Undertoad]

Yup... for me, it was Good Charlotte. Holy crap, they just *suck*, don't the kids see it? What is it with this youth culture!