Critique of Black Culture

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by lookout123

the more actively a group maintains its separateness and differentness, the more likely it will be viewed with suspicion and negative attitudes.

There can be a lot of factors involved with that, though...relationship between the two groups, history between them, etc.

i'm not saying that we shouldn't all be proud of who we are, but there are much more important aspects of oneself to take pride in than our color.

Color is only a small part of it. It's about pride in a people.

why should you be proud of your color anyway?

See above.

could you change it if you weren't especially proud of it?

Watch the movie Black Like Me...or look at Michael Jackson.

"i'm proud to be white." if that isn't an invitation for people to wonder if you are white supremist i don't know what is. but you hear about black pride, hispanic pride, etc. and it is just dandy.

And Italian pride, and German pride, and Irish pride...

For a very long time, it wasn't cool to be different from the norm--hell, it's still not cool in some circles. Then some folks began a counter-culture of sorts..."Hey, there's nothing wrong with me being different! In fact, it's cool as shit!" And it went from there...

If people are proud of being white, hey, that's fine. The problem is that "I'm proud to be white/white pride/white power" are the equivalents of "nigger." You can make it incredibly positive or empowering, but it's gonna be tough--if not impossible--to shake the negative connotations historically associated with the words.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by sycamore

Color is only a small part of it. It's about pride in a people.

What exactly is a people?

What do Italians have to be proud of?

What do Spaniards have to be proud of?

What do Chinese have to be proud of?

What do blacks have to be proud of?

[lookout123]

again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality.
That's it.....Everybody Poops Day!

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality.
That's it.....Everybody Poops Day!

How about Bruce is a Big Ol' Poop Day?

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by lookout123

again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided.

I don't think we've ever been as united as some people think. And right now, I think the divisiveness we have is due to strong differences in opinion...differences that cross racial and economic divides.

I am proud to be American, but there are times when I am embarrassed to be so. And I can understand why some folks are not proud to be American...I hope that we can get to the point where those folks are proud one day.

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What exactly is a people?

My use of "people" in this case refers to people who have a shared ancestry, history and culture.

What do Italians have to be proud of?

What do Spaniards have to be proud of?

What do Chinese have to be proud of?

What do blacks have to be proud of?

Each group has plenty to be proud of...off the top of my head, the Spaniards and Italians can claim Columbus, the Chinese helped build railroads out west and blacks have brought us different types of music and food.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by sycamore

Each group has plenty to be proud of...off the top of my head, the Spaniards and Italians can claim Columbus, the Chinese helped build railroads out west and blacks have brought us different types of music and food.

A bit of a disparity in scale eh?

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

A bit of a disparity in scale eh?

How so?

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by sycamore

How so?

What exactly is contributed by black culture that seperates it from other cultures? What sets it apart so much that people are willing to kill each other over it? What is so important that people are willing to generate an arbitrary and unnecessary divide in american culture based on it? Is it some great change in paradigm that is shaping a better tomorrow? A new math that gives us the Unified Field Theory? An easily learned language that will make all men brothers? A weapon so hideous that all cultures agree to end war?

All I'm asking, and this applies to all of the associated parties, is what is so important about skin color that it's necessary to make up cultural differences when it's more important that we generate a set of synergistic commonalities instead?

[elSicomoro]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What exactly is contributed by black culture that seperates it from other cultures?

You essentially already asked this question in a previous post, which I answered.

What sets it apart so much that people are willing to kill each other over it?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. How do you know that people are actually killing each other over black culture?

What is so important that people are willing to generate an arbitrary and unnecessary divide in american culture based on it?

I believe that black and other minority cultures developed due to a forced divide by the powers that be back in the day. If there was any arbitrariness involved, I would say that it was on the side of the powers that be. Those cultures remain today because they provide a rich history and legacy for those people not necessarily covered by mainstream culture...plus they preserve the culture and help ensure that it continues. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

All I'm asking, and this applies to all of the associated parties, is what is so important about skin color that it's necessary to make up cultural differences when it's more important that we generate a set of synergistic commonalities instead?

See my response above. I'm not sure that synergistic commonalities are so important.

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What exactly is a people?

What do Italians have to be proud of?

What do Spaniards have to be proud of?

What do Chinese have to be proud of?

What do blacks have to be proud of?

How about asking Italians, Spanish, Chinese, Af/Americans, etc. what they are proud of?

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

How about asking Italians, Spanish, Chinese, Af/Americans, etc. what they are proud of?

The question is what has each of those groups accomplished?

[ladysycamore]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

The question is what has each of those groups accomplished?

But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? It's always good to go to the source.

Originally Posted by ladysycamore
I've always wondered why that statement makes some white folks so dang crazy? And no Bruce, every subject that is discussed are not on *every* black mind.

TS:
Because it's being said by a group that is simultaneously bitching about not being included in our reindeer games.

And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing.

AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)

Not to say that ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have SOME kind of recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? It's always good to go to the source.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Do you really have any answers of your own? Do you actually have an informed opinion based on research or study or do you just glom on to the most recent tidbit or the most strident voice of protest?

As far as sources, I believe that I have read enough history to be sure of the accomplishments of the non-black groups in my previous question, my point was to ask whether you actually have any clue of the accomplishments of the group that you are so busy trumpeting about.

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing.

So it's a case of sandlot politics?

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)

So you're going to further perpetuate the stereotype by pretending that that whole "black thing" is a good thing and that people should just not try to understand?

Originally Posted by ladysycamore

Not to say that ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have SOME kind of recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.

I think that both camps have enough crossover members that that doesn't hold water. I've seen more than enough ethnically challenged people in this town as well as my share of people who are successful regardless of their heritage.