7/13/2004: Baited bull

[jaguar]

Remember boy and girls, saying someone is noone is incurs a $500 fine these days.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by jaguar

pdaoust you sound quite reasonable, it's just we get people like onyxcougar who feels the need to point out that evolution is clearly wrong at every given opportunity.

I don't think I said evolution is "clearly wrong", but it's certainly NOT provable, and it's certainly not science. Evolution is a RELIGION, just as much as Christianity, Buddhism, Paganism, Islam, Confucianism, Agnosticism... (insert your particular ism here...)

And no one can PROVE that God exists any more than we can PROVE he doesn't.

It's all about faith, brother. Just a matter of what flavor yours comes in.

And for the record, there have been plenty of opportunities where I *could* have mentioned how evolution isn't science and DIDN'T. So it's not "every given opportunity". But it's nice to see you noticed when I did.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't think I said evolution is "clearly wrong", but it's certainly NOT provable, and it's certainly not science.

There's a good set of articles on evolution in the new (Nov. 2004) National Geographic, if you're curious.

[pdaoust]

yes, I know; I enjoyed the lovely layout and photos.

oh yeah, there were words there too; I didn't read them ^_^ sometimes I'll get way into a Nat'l Geo article -- but that night I was tired so I just looked at the pictures and read a few captions.

And I'm not ashamed.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

There's a good set of articles on evolution in the new (Nov. 2004) National Geographic, if you're curious.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/1106ng.asp

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by pdaoust

yes, I know; I enjoyed the lovely layout and photos.

oh yeah, there were words there too; I didn't read them ^_^ sometimes I'll get way into a Nat'l Geo article -- but that night I was tired so I just looked at the pictures and read a few captions.

And I'm not ashamed.

I have 56 years of back issues you can read.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I have 56 years of back issues you can read.

The paper ones or the electronic collection?

[SHASHOsun]

wowowowowowo

[pdaoust]

xoxoxoBruce: with pictures??? oh boy! ^_^

[mhartzel]

Just to totally derail the current flamewar...

Got any other pics of the girl in the water????

[Uryoces]

I object to the way Nat Geo presented it, essentially as the biggest Troll cover they've ever done, if they've ever done a Troll cover. It says "WAS DARWIN WRONG?" in shit-brown caps. Then if you look inside, there's more than a bit of venom as they basically state "No, dumbshit". If they'd just said something like "Darwin's Legacy" or "The Case for Evolution", that would have been better.

[jaguar]

Well frankly, in an age where fundie nutters are pushing their agendas in schools (at least in the US, that particular brand of religious pestilence doesn't seem to have much of a footing this side of the Atlantic) someone needs to stand up and say it loud and clear. The fact it's a question that needs to be asked at all is the real worry.

[Happy Monkey]

I thought it was an amusing tweak of the current depressing trend in popular media of covering everything in a "balanced" way. If one side has evidence and the other has only assertions, they are still treated as if it were only a he-said-she-said, and no reporters are willing to actually report what the evidence shows.

[Uryoces]

I am one of those nutters, though not fundie. Change over time is inevitable given billions of years, I would never argue that. I'd like to see if it's possible to model how organic compounds suddenly generate self-replicating molecules. The building blocks of life litterally litter every nook and cranny of space, from asteroids, to comets, to recently dicovered free-drifting clouds of organics in deep space. Lipids will even form primitive analogs of cells walls if immersed in water, but I'd like to know how, and in what exact conditions life will arise.

If we've evolved from apes, so be it. It should prove that we are part of this planet and not above it. It should also be natural that we strive to transcend that basic beginning, and seek the divine.

We will always end up with more questions and dichotomies than answers, but we should never stop asking those questions. The price for enlightenment, as well as freedom, is eternal vigilance, and patience.

[jaguar]

to recently dicovered free-drifting clouds of organics in deep space

huh???

Science is all about finding the theory that fits best and running with that until something better comes along, as it stands there is a wealth of evidence to support evolution and nothing to bring it down. Creationism, intelligent design or whatever other robes it gets dressed up in is nothing more than religious twaddle and has no fit place in scientific discourse, it has no supporting evidence and no basis in science. thus no place anywhere near an educational institution outside a monastery. People can hold whatever religious views they want but when they start trying to stifle science and inflict their superstitions on everyone else I tend to get pretty fucking pissed off. Organised religion has done more damage than any other force in history and done the most to retard the growth of humanity it's death would be a blessing on mankind, that in this day and age it can still threaten science is a sad fact indeed.