More on the Reservist "Mutiny"

The following is a snip from The Christian Science Monitor. As the daughter of a man who served this country for 30 years in our military, I can't tell you how angry it makes me feel that our troops in Iraq MAY not be getting adequate support and equipment. Those in the Reserves appear to be taking the brunt of these shortages:

WASHINGTON – Army commanders moved gingerly on Sunday to address a rare and serious case of a US military unit defying orders in a combat zone, seeking to check a disciplinary breakdown while addressing safety concerns common among troops tested daily in ambushes on the roads of Iraq.

Eighteen soldiers of a South Carolina Reserve unit are under formal investigation, five of whom have been suspended from duty and temporarily reassigned to other units, for allegedly refusing a risky mission to deliver fuel last week, according to military officials...

The case casts a stark light on problems faced by US ground troops in Iraq: Shortages of armored protection, overtaxed National Guard and Reserve units, and increasingly sophisticated attacks by insurgents on supply convoys manned by logistics soldiers with relatively little combat training.

It also underscores the danger for the military that such conditions will produce troubling, if isolated, breakdowns in discipline. In many respects, it's a classic illustration of the delicate line commanders must walk between enforcing order necessary to accomplish the mission while minimizing risks to soldiers' lives.

How US commanders handle the case, which has captured headlines at home and abroad in recent days, "will set a tone throughout the entire unit" as soldiers gauge whether their comrades are treated fairly, says Jeff McCausland, former dean of the US Army War College and now director of the Leadership in Conflict Initiative at Dickinson College in Carlisle, Pa.

It was one of the largest-scale incidents he recalled of a unit refusing to obey orders in wartime since 1990, when 67 soldiers from the Louisiana National Guard's 256th Infantry Brigade went AWOL from Fort Hood, Texas, during preparations for deployment to the Persian Gulf. Under military law, soldiers who willfully disobey lawful orders of superior officers in wartime can face maximum penalties of court martial and death.

Still, the military has acknowledged that some of the soldiers who refused to man a fuel convoy from Tallil to Taji south of Baghdad on Oct. 13 raised "valid" concerns, which lawyers say could mitigate their punishment if they cast doubt on the reasonableness of the order. Indeed, senior commanders have ordered the entire 120-man 343rd Quartermaster Company to "stand down" to conduct maintenance and retraining.

Brig. Gen. James Chambers, COSCOM commander, said the investigation would last 10 to 14 days. He denied assertions reported by families of 343rd soldiers that the convoy in question carried contaminated fuel or would have lacked armed escort. He said all soldiers have adequate body armor and have trained in convoy live fire exercises, and military mechanics are fitting steel plating on supply trucks. "I can't think of anything we're not doing now," he told a Baghdad press conference.

Yet a soldier with the 343rd based in Rock Hill, S.C., told the Monitor that none of the unit's vehicles - including tractor trailers, tankers, and Humvees - had armor or mounted guns when the unit deployed to Iraq last December. Apart from a 2 1/2-month predeployment course, the soldiers' training had focused on skills such as testing fuel for contamination and running water-purification systems, rather than combat tasks, he said.

Army Reserve Chief Lt. Gen. James Helmly says the Army is upgrading reserve forces equipment and increase training on "warrior skills" such as marksmanship, battle drills, and land navigation as they face new dangers in higher numbers in Iraq where front lines do not exist.

The Army is drawing heavily on Reserve forces, which now make up 40 percent of the troops in Iraq and the overwhelming majority of logistics soldiers. Crisscrossing Iraq daily on routes plagued with road bombs and ambushes, they face dangers that approach those of GIs. Some 169 Army National Guard and Reserve soldiers have died in Iraq, with nearly 80 percent killed by hostile fire - a figure slightly higher than for active duty.

[tw]

Most news services report the arrival of a (maybe) 100 megawatt GE electric generator to south Baghdad. However, more telling is why reconstruction has all but halted in Iraq. Just to protect the workers, all this is required:

Inching Along, One More Piece to Rebuild Iraq from NY Times of 17 Oct 2004
Originally scheduled to be producing electricity by December, the generators are not expected to be ready until June. The pace slowed and security costs soared after the insurgency broke out across the country in April. Two months later, three General Electric employees were killed by a suicide bomber while riding in a convoy in Baghdad.

Now the work site, which employs some 260 Iraqis, resembles Fort Knox, as one Bechtel employee put it. (Fearing reprisals, the company asked that none of its employees be named, and that no photographs showing landmarks around the compound be taken.) The site is surrounded by high concrete blast walls, and there is a bunkerlike inner perimeter where project managers work.

Whenever a Westerner ventures from the inner perimeter and mingles with the Iraqi workers, he is accompanied by rifle-toting guards from ArmorGroup, another private security company. In addition, the site is protected by about 80 of the Nepalese guards known as Ghurkas. There are guard towers, checkpoints and sandbagged refuges for protection in case of a mortar attack.

Like the Western managers and engineers, all of the security personnel must be fed and housed at the site. "Security threw this project all out of whack," said a Bechtel official working inside the compound. "There's no telling what it's going to cost." He cautioned, however, that not all of the cost increases could be attributed to security. Officials involved with the reconstruction say they are in negotiations with General Electric over cost increases.

Now lets see. Those SC National Guardsman were suppose to take the same roads, right past that electric generation site, then pass through Baghdad, and then transverse about one half the Sunni Triangle - without even air cover. Clearly they were anti-American for complaining. Welcome to Vietnam when troops were ordered to do the same stupid things - and openly revolted. This occured often in Nam because there was severe incompetance directly traceable even up to the presidential level. Well, at least that president (that Lookout123 intentionally distorts by having us blame Johnson) read his own memos.

[Chewbaccus]

My question is, is this a general, across-the-board fuckup, or resultant of a caste-like system, where regular Army gets the first crack at armor, supplies, etc., and Reservists/Nat'l Guards get whatever's left over?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Chewbaccus

My question is, is this a general, across-the-board fuckup, or resultant of a caste-like system, where regular Army gets the first crack at armor, supplies, etc., and Reservists/Nat'l Guards get whatever's left over?

This unit was last in line for minimally required equipment because they were in Tallil (where Tobias was stationed) and where there is no unrest and violence. Problem was that management (general) decided to send this ill equipped unit into southern Baghdad (literally called the Death Highway), then into Baghdad, and then into the Sunni Triangle. I have no problem with their rebellion. The standard Army position appears to be they were right, but we must discipline someone to make a show of discipline.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by tw

Well, at least that president (that Lookout123 intentionally distorts by having us blame Johnson) read his own memos.

cite?

[wolf]

So, does this mean that some studio will be updating and remaking The Caine Mutiny?

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

So, does this mean that some studio will be updating and remaking The Caine Mutiny?

A perfect example. If I recall, the Caine Mutiny is based upon a typhoon that struck a navy battle group with so much force that, eventually, all ships scattered to protect themselves. The USS Pittsburgh even lost its bow. Many destroyers were capsized because they did not turn into the wind. Does the crew save their ship or do they follow their captain's orders - and risk capsizing? Do I have the story correct?

I believe it is only recent that soldiers cannot obey an illegal order. So now the soldier must do something that did not exist before WWII. He must decide what is and is not a legal order. It makes the Caine Mutiny a relevant story.

[Cyber Wolf]

Ahhh...Crimson Tide. Even with its little inaccuracies, the movie has a similar undertone, except its with regards to nuclear weapons. Not having enough information and knowing it is like not having enough armor and knowing it.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf

Not having enough information and knowing it is like not having enough armor and knowing it.

I'm going to have to disagree. Either can be just as deadly or catastrophic.

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf

Ahhh...Crimson Tide. Even with its little inaccuracies, the movie has a similar undertone, except its with regards to nuclear weapons. Not having enough information and knowing it is like not having enough armor and knowing it.

Just a philosophical aside: I would prefer to not have enough armor and know it. That's something concrete. I know that an enemy sword can kill me if I rush off to battle in my current circumstances.

On the other hand if I don't have enough information and know it, I'm paralyzed. Maybe the information I have is all there is. Maybe my information is false. Maybe I only think I don't have enough information. Now I have no idea what to do.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Now I have no idea what to do.

Follow orders.

Not having enough information and knowing it is like not having enough armor and knowing it.

I'm going to have to disagree. Either can be just as deadly or catastrophic.

Disagree? Aren't you saying the same thing?

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Disagree? Aren't you saying the same thing?

Yeah. It would help if I read a little more closely.