Who can tell me sth about the American Dream

[lookout123]

mari - what should the cutoff be for a person to start having to pay taxes and at what percentage should they pay?
and lets keep in mind that the person who makes $7K/annual isn't living on that $7k alone. their are a few gov't programs available. food stamps, medical, housing. it all adds up. nobody denies that there really are poor people living in america - but we aren't living in the hell that you apparently see when you look around the world. if your community really is the way you are describing america, i strongly recommend that you pack your belongings into a car and pick a direction, drive an appropriate distance and start over. there are opportunities available.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

if your community really is the way you are describing america, i strongly recommend that you pack your belongings into a car and pick a direction, drive an appropriate distance and start over. there are opportunities available.

Is that a realistic idea for most low-income people? When you move somewhere, you have to find a place to live, which requires first month's rent, security deposit, etc. Someone who's living on the poverty line most likely doesn't have that kind of cash laying around. If she were to go to a more "prosperous" location, I guarantee the rent would cost significantly more than what she's already paying. That money just doesn't fall out of the sky.

[lookout123]

i don't know. i know it isn't realistic for some people because they aren't willing to stick their neck out that far for fear of the unknown and the what-ifs. which is understandable. all i know is that if moving up in life (whatever that means to each individual) is important enough to a person they can accomplish it. there are a million things that might prevent a person from succeeding, but only one thing guarantees failure - and that is the decision not to try. it is in human nature to hold on to what we have and complain about how pitiful it is rather than risk losing it for the chance of gaining more.

[garnet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i all i know is that if moving up in life (whatever that means to each individual) is important enough to a person they can accomplish it.

OK, I'll take you up on that. Say someone lives in a small-ish town and makes just enough to get by--they live paycheck to paycheck (as many people do) and cannot afford to save anything. They want to get a better job and move to a more prosperous place or a bigger city where there are more opportunities. They have the will and the ambition to move on, but no funds to back it up. How do you specifically suggest that they proceed at that point?

[lookout123]

they probably couldn't do it over night, but if the goal is important enough to them they can put away a couple of dollars from their current job so that soon they can do it. does this person have a tv? stereo? anything of relative value they may not need in order to start over?

by the way - i did start over a few years ago after a relationship went south. i was in a $25K/annual job with no hope for upward mobility. i quit there and sacked out at in an aquaintance's storage area. (pretty uncomfortable with 110 degree AZ heat) i stayed in there for six weeks until i could get into an apartment. i had no furniture, just my clothes and some dishes. i sold my stereo, tv, bass, and amp to pay the 1st month rent. i started a 100% commission job with good potential (i had no experience in the area, i bluffed my way through the interview) and went from there.

i now live quite comfortably.


edit: my point is that if i can do it, anyone can. i'm sure there are some here that would point out that i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, i still support bush afterall. its not easy. it is scary. it is embarrassing. but it is possible.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Most of these poor people a saddled with a rugrat or two or three or four or......., so much for the storage area.

Mari, a couple years ago I had a girlfriend that was single with two boys in high school. She made a little over $16 k, federal withholding of about $1900 and a refund of well over $3k.

[lookout123]

bruce i wasn't suggesting that everyone follow in my footsteps. but i get tired of hearing the "i can't do _________ because _________ is in my way." there is always a path to improving one's situation.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Most of these poor people a saddled with a rugrat or two or three or four or......., so much for the storage area.

Mari, a couple years ago I had a girlfriend that was single with two boys in high school. She made a little over $16 k, federal withholding of about $1900 and a refund of well over $3k.

So what's your point, Bruce? Did she get the extra $1100 because she was dishonest and cheated on her tax return? If so, I'd be mad, too. I don't advocate dishonesty. Or did she get the extra $1100 for earned income rebate as a single Mom of 2 boys? That's a family of three living on less than $1400/month from the information you give. If that's all she earned, I don't see how she managed to make ends meet, and you begrudge her a lousey extra $1100? Give me a break. Why aren't you angry over the $50 billion that your taxes are helping to pay towards rebuilding Iraq?

Originally Posted by lookout123

mari - what should the cutoff be for a person to start having to pay taxes and at what percentage should they pay?
and lets keep in mind that the person who makes $7K/annual isn't living on that $7k alone. their are a few gov't programs available. food stamps, medical, housing. it all adds up. nobody denies that there really are poor people living in america - but we aren't living in the hell that you apparently see when you look around the world. if your community really is the way you are describing america, i strongly recommend that you pack your belongings into a car and pick a direction, drive an appropriate distance and start over. there are opportunities available.

Frankly, I believe there should be no cut off point. I feel that there should be a simple flat rate tax that applies across the board from people who make one dollar a year to one billion or more. There should be no tax dodges on that amount or exceptions. You just pay it, just as you pay sales tax. When you buy something at the store, it doesn't matter if you are single or married, have 20 dependents or none, or are wealthy or poor - you pay that 6% or whatever it is in your area. That is the simple, fair and just solution.

As for the rest of your comments: Lookout, you believe the same things I once used to believe - that there are any number of programs out there which help the poor or the elderly or the disabled. There are not, at least on the Federal level, and not on the state level either with perhaps one or two exceptions.

Here's a reality check for you. HUD is cutting back its housing voucher program by at least $200 million which will force more than 600,000 American families out on the streets over the next 3 years. HUD did not have to do this - congress had appropriated the funding, but under the climate of the Bush administration, HUD decided to make these cuts anyway. Meanwhile, we are going to spend a minimum of 50 BILLION dollars to rebuild Iraq. People who are enemies of this country will have roofs over their heads thanks to YOUR tax dollars, but American people in need will be living on the streets. Bottom line, which chunk of your share of taxes is going to hit you the hardest - the $200 million to help your fellow countrymen or the $50 billion to help your enemy? I am on the HUD waiting list, but in light of these cuts, I do exactly feel in a sunny mood about getting any help from them anytime soon, and since this is a FEDERAL program, it makes no difference which state I move to.

Thanks to tax cuts which mainly benefit the wealthy which I gave substantiated examples of above; state and local governments everywhere are experiencing shortfalls. The first programs to go are always social services. Thanks to the lack of assistance from state and local governments, the poor are turning to charities in overwhelming numbers. These private charities cannot stand up under the strain. This is true in state after state.

The other thing that you forget is that people who have lived somewhere for a while tend to have a support system of friends and/or family in that place. Even if a person's friends are living in poverty themselves and can give no financial assistance, the emotional support they offer has no price that can be placed upon it.

You seem to want to hold on to some fairy tale belief of America the bountiful and think that somehow Colorado is the exception to every other state. Colorado is little different than any other place in this country and better than some. Garnet is right. How do I with an income of $625.00/month plus $140.00 a month in food stamps possibly afford to pick up and move to some other state and pay first and last month's rent plus damage deposit on an apartment somewhere? Remember, HUD is a Federal program, so anywhere I go in the country I will be faced with the same shortages and waiting lists. In fact, by moving I would loose my place on the El Paso County HUD list and have to start all over again at the bottom of another county's list in another state. Your suggestion is simply impossible and my saying that is no more defeatist than if you had advised me to sprout wings and fly, and I told you that human beings cannot grow wings.

Staying in Colorado is far from an act of defeat on my part, anyhow. My doctors are here, my support system is here. I have contacts here who I believe will reach out their hands to help me as I seek to rehabilitate myself and find work I can do again. Things are tough all over this country. I may as well take my stand and fight in a place that I love and where I have my roots than among strangers in a place I don't belong.

[ladysycamore]

edit: my point is that if i can do it, anyone can. i'm sure there are some here that would point out that i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, i still support bush afterall. its not easy. it is scary. it is embarrassing. but it is possible.

Exactly..possible. Anything's "possible" and nothing is guaranteed.

"Until you have walked in my shoes, you do NOT have the right to tell me what route to walk". Dr. George Keller

[lookout123]

that is the point LSyc. it is possible, not guaranteed. that is why it is called the american dream, not the american promise. we are guaranteed Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. notice that the key to that is pursuit ? everyone has the ability to chase their particular golden ring. it is up to the individual with a little bit of luck thrown in to achieve financial success. it is also up to the individual to live a happy life.
i'm probably butchering the quote but i always liked the idea - "happiness is having what you want, contentness is wanting what you have" - or something along those lines.