Bush Tells Blacks, 'I'm Here to Ask for Your Vote'

[jaguar]

Dana you might want to re-phrase that, you basically just accused every white person on the planet who is not aware of any current discrimination against in this case, blacks, of being part of a vast conspiricy to maintiain their 'superiority' or somesuch rubbish.

Inequality will always exist and as bruce so finely put it, we all cop it one way or another, people give favours to people they know, people they go golfing with, brother's friends not to mention old school tie stuff. There are entire management structures in some companies that you'll be unable to break in to unless you went to a certain school. Suck? Hell yes? Part of life? Certainly. Justify a culture of victimhood? no.

[DanaC]

My point is that one can either tackle racism as a problem or ignore it. To ignore it is to accept it as an inevitable part of life rather than a problem which can be solved. To ignore it is to maintain the status quo. It is in the interests of those in power to maintain the status quo as it benefits their demographic.

Do I believe that all white people are conspiring to keep the black man down? of course not, but it is clearly a reality of life which makes itself felt in the black experience in a way it does not make itself felt in the white. Is life fair for white people? No it's fair for nobody, some people get many opportunities some get few and that cuts across the boards....However the earnings disparity between the majority of black people in America and the majority of white people in America is extreme and in fact has not shifted terribly much since the days of slavery. Black people are free and they have more rights and opportunities thna they once had in America but the distance between their earnings and the majority of whites has not shrunk particularly in the past 2oo years. In order to redress the balance affirmative action has in some cases been used, but since affirmative action does it's job by making things unfair for some white people it has recieved an awful lot of bad press......to shift the balance so that is less in favour of whites means acting unfairly towards whites by placing artificial barriers in their way. This is not considered acceptable by most despite the fact it would make things more fair whne viewed as a whole. Most people who are not part of the groups most likely to face discrimination dont want the world made any more unfair towards themselves regardless of how much more fair that would be for those who are currently discriminated against.


Lookout it isnt a case of rights. In law black and white are equal.....but in reality the opportunities are fewerr for black than white and the wages are lower. Unless you are suggesting that the reason black people are so disproportionately living bneath the poverty line and that whites are disproportionately likely to succeed in business and academia is due to black people just being less capable or ambitious.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by DanaC

it would make things more fair whne viewed as a whole.

How so?

Why is it fair to make it easier for for a group, when taken as a whole, that is less qualified, when taken as a whole, for for most forms of skilled positions, when taken as a whole?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by DanaC

However the earnings disparity between the majority of black people in America and the majority of white people in America is extreme and in fact has not shifted terribly much since the days of slavery. Black people are free and they have more rights and opportunities thna they once had in America but the distance between their earnings and the majority of whites has not shrunk particularly in the past 2oo years.

numbers? show me proof that blacks make, in relation to whites, earn no more now than they did 200 years ago.

and drop this "they have more rights and opportunities thna they one had..." BS. they have EVERY right and opportunity that i have.

handicaps are for golf not life. it is inexcuseable in modern life to skew the starting point of anything in the favor of any particular group, no matter what happened in the past. affirmative action while a good idea on paper, cannot be put into action in a proper manner - because it does not treat people as equal. it says to the minority "you couldn't do this on your own so we'll give you a little shove" if that isn't inherently racist, i don't know what is.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Lookout it isnt a case of rights. In law black and white are equal.....but in reality the opportunities are fewerr for black than white and the wages are lower. Unless you are suggesting that the reason black people are so disproportionately living bneath the poverty line and that whites are disproportionately likely to succeed in business and academia is due to black people just being less capable or ambitious.

actually i don't feel they are less capable or ambitious, but those who support affirmative action obviously do.

again - what opportunities do blacks not have access to?

the difference in thought here is pretty obvious - you think that equality means we all have similar job success, income, educational achievements, etc. i say that those are results dependent on the individuals level of dedication - something that cannot be quantitatively measured. in my view equality means having the same ACCESS to opportunities schools, jobs, etc... what you do with it and how you perform and the decisions you make in regards to these opportunities all fall on the individual, not society.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by lookout123

actually i don't feel they are less capable or ambitious, but those who support affirmative action obviously do.

No, those who support affirmative action feel that there are still many people in positions of power who feel that way, who have to be given a nudge to overcome their prejudices.