Hot takes on the Democratic frontrunners

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But it's true: Russia interfered in the 2016 election. It is well-proven.

It's worth noting-- Russia successfully interfered in the 2016 election.

The goals they took steps to accomplish were achieved, and we are now living in that world.

And it continues. When their bots support a candidate (maybe?), someone will say, "Russian Asset!" and they've succeeding in making us argue about it.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Flint

It's worth noting-- Russia successfully interfered in the 2016 election.

The goals they took steps to accomplish were achieved, and we are now living in that world.

Unproven is that they influenced many votes. We examined the Facebook campaign here. It was pretty weak; and most of it didn't even focus on politics, it was more about divisive issues.

More importantly, Russia was one operation trying to influence the election - amongst *hundreds* of operations. The Wikipedia article says they got $30M to the NRA to run pro-Trump messaging. But that's just $30 Million out of $1.4 Billion spent by PACs to try to influence the election.

As such, victory alone is not proof of anything. The DNC are more effective influencers (and they arguably kept Gabbard out of the previous debate)

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Unproven is that they influenced many votes. We examined the Facebook campaign here. It was pretty weak; and most of it didn't even focus on politics, it was more about divisive issues.

More importantly, Russia was one operation trying to influence the election - amongst *hundreds* of operations. The Wikipedia article says they got $30M to the NRA to run pro-Trump messaging. But that's just $30 Million out of $1.4 Billion spent by PACs to try to influence the election.

As such, victory alone is not proof of anything. The DNC are more effective influencers (and they arguably kept Gabbard out of the previous debate)

The big kicker for me is the RNC emails which were definitely hacked, but never leaked. Folks are being blackmailed, the only question is who and for how much (obviously not money.)

I'd lay any amount of money on Lindsey Graham being compromised, for example. Dude was railing against Trump in some of the strongest terms out there, both before AND after he was elected. Then he takes a one-on-one golf game alone with Trump, and since then he's been licking the guy's balls 24/7.

[Griff]

Not what I needed to visualize over lunch

[henry quirk]

"The big kicker for me is the RNC emails which were definitely hacked, but never leaked. Folks are being blackmailed, the only question is who and for how much (obviously not money.)"

1: We know the Repub accounts were hacked how?

2: If hacked, we know the Repub accounts had dirt in 'em how?

3: If there was dirt, we know blackmail is happenin' how?

#

"I'd lay any amount of money on Lindsey Graham being compromised, for example. Dude was railing against Trump in some of the strongest terms out there, both before AND after he was elected. Then he takes a one-on-one golf game alone with Trump, and since then he's been licking the guy's balls 24/7."

Seems to me Graham got his balls after Mccain kicked. I think Johnny had dirt on Lindsey, dirt he took to his grave freein' Graham up to go where he preferred instead of where directed.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

1: We know the Repub accounts were hacked how?

via the Wiki article

On January 10, 2017, FBI Director James Comey told the Senate Intelligence Committee that Russia succeeded in "collecting some information from Republican-affiliated targets but did not leak it to the public". In earlier statements, an FBI official stated Russian attempts to access the RNC server were unsuccessful, or had reportedly told the RNC chair that their servers were secure, but that email accounts of individual Republicans (including Colin Powell) were breached. (Over 200 emails from Colin Powell were posted on the website DC Leaks.) One state Republican Party (Illinois) may have had some of its email accounts hacked.

[henry quirk]

So: RNC servers weren't accessed but individual accounts were. Seems to me: them accounts musta been clean (or Maddow and O'Donnell would told us all about it).

So: #1 is answered ( UT), and #'s 2 and 3 sorta answered.

All that's left is: was LG bein' blackmailed about his homosexuality by JM or is he bein' blackmailed about his homosexuality by the Ruskies?

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Unproven is that they influenced many votes. We examined the Facebook campaign here. It was pretty weak; and most of it didn't even focus on politics, it was more about divisive issues.

I have a very different view about this. Divisive issues are the biggest problem in our society-- divisiveness is ruining our politics, our civil society, and our lives. I know you don't disagree with this. Our political system is gridlocked by two corrupt entities, and people won't vote them out-- because of divisive, "scare issues." This is the primary method of controlling politics in America-- if you manipulate the divisiveness, you manipulate the whole machine.

I would argue that, in general, the ONLY factor that influences votes is divisive issues.

And, specifically, a way that votes are influenced? By getting people (for example, on the Left) to argue among themselves, and not be able to form a coalition to challenge authoritarianism. In 2016, this was by fueling a contentious Primary--it was contentious on it's own, but the Bots made sure we never stopped fighting about it. In 2019, it's people arguing about Gabbard on Facebook--this is happening today, right now. If "the Left" is having arguments started by Russian bots (on Facebook RIGHT NOW), they end up, for example, voting for Jill Stein (2016) which is what HRC--I assume-- was talking about, albeit in the stupidest way possible. Apparently she never heard "don't feed the trolls"