Atheism in the USA

[DanaC]

I think it is time to revive this thread.

You know - when \i announced to anyone who would listen, about the age of 13 or 14 or so it was received with mostly muted disinterest, occasional mild interest and not much else. It wasn't a big deal. The only people who cared were Gran - because she was a devout Catholic, and Dad - because he knew it would break Gran's heart. Even then Gran treated it as teenage rebellion that I would grow out of and Dad just didn;t want me to say anything to Gran.

So, it's been a revelation to me just how difficult it is for some people to break away from their church - and how deeply indoctrinating some people's religious background is.

I know the situation is more fraught in the US where atheism is sometimes viewed with suspicion as a kind of anti-Americanism - but it also affects a lot of people in the UK too (Jehovas Witnesses are just as separatist and just as likely to shun apostate family members in the UK as in the US).

I'v been watching a lot of really interesting atheist youtubers - and have become a lot more aware of the levels of indoctrination at play in some of the more extreme sects of Christianity and the damage it can do to people and families - and it has also made me reassess some of my own assumptions of Christ as a primarily benevolent and loving figure and Christianity as a source of a great deal of good. Much of which stems from my own vaguely Christian schooling (childhood prayers and bible story colouring books etc).

Some of what I am seeing is quite concerning. We notice it when it comes from Islam, but when it's a fundamentalist Christian homeschooling their child to disbelieve science and accept that the first loyalty of anybody is to their Lord over and above any family member, or that women were created for the sexual pleasure of their husband, somehow that doesn't feel the same as the power of Allah and the misogyny of the Qu'ran.

I just watched a youtube video in which a Mom (clearly a loving mother) explains why she decided to home school her children. In this video she says at one point that the purpose of homeschooling is not to raise smarter kids (though she hopes that will be outcome) - the primary reason to homeschool is: 'the world is loud and it completely drowns out the voice of the Lord. It sidetracks, it distracts, it silences the spirit of the Lord [...] '

She lists various benefits, some of which I think any parent would relate to (not having evening conflicts over homework and being able to squeeze the entire school day into 8-2pm leaving more time for family things) but she then explains that her intention when planning out her school year and lessons is not that they master so many types of mathematical skills, or be able to memorise the constitution (though she hopes they will achieve that) - instead when she consults God for guidance and reassurance for the decision she has made, she ' kept hearing through the spirit that she was to 'help her children become disciples of Jesus Christ'

Watching the video I was struck by a number of things - 1st is that she is a deeply committed parent making huge sacrifices and engaging in really difficult stuff to do right by her children. 2nd is that she is setting her children up to face the world with a moral code derived from the writings of Iron Age men and most likely in ignorance of scientific facts.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

So, it's been a revelation to me just how difficult it is for some people to break away from their church - and how deeply indoctrinating some people's religious background is.

Their parents taught them the church was a solid sanctuary and comfort no matter what. Like any placebo, if you believe it then it works for you.

Now their kids are parents in a world were the news will give you the heebie-jeebies, and the technical changes leave you befuddled but suspicious. The only thing they have that's solidly unchanged is their stand byplacebo. So being loving parents they want to pass that to the kids.

Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc, are all fine in themselves. The problem is religion, like government, labor unions, or any organization, even an un-organization like Lord of the Flies island, are all susceptible to power grabs by
bad people for personal gain. To work properly everyone involved has to actually be involved and not passive to this constant danger.

The following was written by Diana Athill late in life. A smart broad.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

... the primary reason to homeschool is: 'the world is loud and it completely drowns out the voice of the Lord.

God finished speaking long before mankind even existed. George Burns (as God) got it right. He had defined the rules, principle, concept, and reality. We do with it what we want. God says nothing more. Everything is already defined. It is up to us to learn it, make of it what we want, and either advance mankind or 'wreck shit'.

God does not care. Otherwise he would be a corporal being - not a god. Gods do not have silly things such as emotions (ie love hate contempt, anger). Only false idols have and do that.

One who ignores things such as science and math is ignoring what God said long ago. They who foolishly stop searching for more of what God said long ago are drowning out God's words. George Burns accurately parodied what God really is.