I know this is just a bunch of terrible kids but...

[Flint]

debating whether blackface is blackface

[Undertoad]

Yes. It was kind of important for the people who went hatery on the kids to put some kind of context on the entire event. To hyper-examine why they might be right, when it entirely turned out to be social media framing and nothing of importance actually occurred.

So they pawed through old yearbooks to find things, and used them, even though the kids in question were nine at the time, and yet had no connection to the school where they would eventually go on a field trip and do nothing of actual importance.

Some people hate to be wrong and the hatery made it too obvious. So they fight to be right, up to the point of pathetic absurdity, and that is where we are.

Think of all the times that tw has said "I was wrong about that". Zero times in 28 years. Some people just can't do it.

[glatt]

Gotta give them something so they can save face.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim

In spite of insults and adrenaline, nobody threw a punch.

Another excellent, honest fact from an event where little that is conclusive can be obtained.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Some people hate to be wrong and the hatery made it too obvious. So they fight to be right, up to the point of pathetic absurdity, and that is where we are.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Joker face is white and red... perhaps except on blackout day?

Some people got stuck on the first impressions, and some got stuck on the second wave. I'm still not sure where I am on the kids. They were doing tomahawk chops, and Sandmann's own descriptions of his smile are a bit weird even (or maybe because it was) filtered through a PR firm, but I've certainly had my own expression misinterpreted.

Much of the "vindication" of the kids was over the revelation that Philips approached the kids, and not vice versa. But I don't remember "who approached who first" being a big part of the initial reaction. Even the initial video shows Philips walking forward until face to face with Sandmann. Maybe there was an implied assumption, though.

While additional information has muddied the waters with respect to Philips and the kids, it has done nothing to justify the chaperones allowing it to get to that point. If cultists are screaming abuse at a group of kids under your charge, get the kids away from there. There were five chaperones, so they could have left one there to direct any groups arriving later.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

...hatery...

Some folks have nothing but the haterade, so they hang on to it like grim death.

[Undertoad]

If you mean I'm stuck on whether this is blackface or not? I'm undecided; I'm asking questions; if that's "stuck" I'm way happy to be stuck, as opposed to AGAIN accusing a teenager I don't know of being a horrible racist on the basis of a single image.

And, that's not second wave, that whole matter is unrelated. You have gone out on a limb to relate them, why? You need the school to be abhorrent to defend a point that can no longer be defended? I don't get it.

~

WRT the adults moving the kids away from the wildly racist Hebrew Israelites, the entire group was waiting in that location because they were waiting in the appointed spot for their bus. The bus arrived, and they left.

BTW Philly is aware of the Hebrew Israelites. They gather downtown and by Temple regularly to protest that whitey must be killed. (Philly.com story on them - paywall in effect, load in incognito window)

Apparently, when the Hebrew Israelites shouted at the kids that there was "only one nigger in your group!" ... in response, the kids hugged their black friend in solidarity. Caution, I did not see that part of any video, only heard the audio, so I am just reporting what others have reported.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

There were five chaperones, so they could have left one there to direct any groups arriving later.

Another astute hypothesis. Is there any indication that those chaperons did nothing or did try to defuse the confrontation? Especially if they (so it says) "gave permission to chant".

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Caution, I did not see that part of any video so I am just reporting what others have reported.

Why did some unnamed person know that? Whys are always essential to knowing something. We also know anti-hate demonstrators in Charlotte NC physically threatened the Nazis, KKK, and White Racists (who had guns) because someone said so. The missing how or why is, for example, why so many believe Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and other obvious propaganda organizations.

Fox News anchorman openly denied reports that people in the Superdome and Convention center (in New Orleans) had no food or water for three days. Therefore that denial also must be true. And since he made a statement without saying why, then it is believable? Nonsense. Honest testimony also says why it is known. Hearsay, without those always required reasons why, is best ignored as if a liel

What did chaperons, who clearly saw what was happening, do to defuse a confrontation? That is an astute question.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If you mean I'm stuck on whether this is blackface or not? I'm undecided; I'm asking questions; if that's "stuck" I'm way happy to be stuck, as opposed to AGAIN accusing a teenager I don't know of being a horrible racist on the basis of a single image.

And, that's not second wave, that whole matter is unrelated.

The second wave was the total exoneration of the kids and demonization of Philips. I think it was an overcorrection, and more information muddies both extreme views, but like I said, I'm ambivalent on the kids.

You have gone out on a limb to relate them, why? You need the school to be abhorrent to defend a point that can no longer be defended? I don't get it.

Bruce posted the pics, I provided the "Black day and white day" context, and reiterated that even if the kid was ignorant of blackface, the adults from the school shouldn't be, which was how I "relate them" to my previous post in the thread. Doing the "tomahawk chop" at a Native American is also in this category.

WRT the adults moving the kids away from the wildly racist Hebrew Israelites, the entire group was waiting in that location because they were waiting in the appointed spot for their bus. The bus arrived, and they left.

They were waiting at an agreed-upon location (hence my remark about leaving an adult there to direct stragglers), but the bus was a block or two away; buses don't pull up to the Lincoln Memorial steps.

[sexobon]

President Trump should invite those kids to his next SOTU address.

[Undertoad]

What could somebody determine, with certainty, about a random subset of adults at your high school today, based on a single, questionable picture of the crowd from a basketball game taken 7 years ago?

~ Obviously, N O T H I N G ~

But you need them to suck for some reason?

[Happy Monkey]

I'm only concentrating on the one data point because it's the one you're concentrating on. There's been a lot of stuff in the news on the subject over the course of the week, and I haven't personally brought it here, though I was interested in what people did bring here, and have commented on it.

[Undertoad]

S'all good then

[Undertoad]

What did chaperons, who clearly saw what was happening, do to defuse a confrontation?

There was no confrontation.

Why did some unnamed person know that?

They saw the additional videos that came out. Here's the one from the Hebrew Israelites. You can see, there is no confrontation. It's a bunch of nothing.

There is something very beautiful going on: the witnessing of free speech. It's important for the students to see. After a very long witnessing, they tire, and answer with their school chant. It's about the right response to the racism; there's no arguing with the Hebrew Israelites.

Several times during this video, chaperones have the kids back up from the Israelites. The Israelites see the kids as a threat, and demand distance themselves, and at one point THEY tell the kids to back up, which the kids do.

"Y'all got one nigger in the crowd" happens from 1:18:22. The kids are being called a bunch of crackers, so they show they have, actually, two black kids in their group. One of the black students becomes visible and he is embraced but he also dodges into the crowd a little.