Sexual misconduct

[Undertoad]

What is the "doing nothing at all" here? Saying something if you see something, or saying that you should say something if you see something?

The latter. It's doing nothing at all.

I mean, for one thing, 99% of this behavior happens entirely privately. 99% of it represents a power game which we're almost never party to.

In that atmosphere, what does it mean to demand a moral behavior? I can't remember when I last witnessed a specific incident. (After 9th grade.) Have you? What was it? I have never seen a colleague play grabass with an unwilling secretary, or chase her around the desk cartoon-style, a la some sort of mid-60s sitcom.

Let me tell you what I *have* seen though. The unmistakeable evidence of a married 40 year old boss reaming his 25 year old secretary, on a Saturday afternoon, when the office was supposed to be empty and only the assistant IT guy would come in unexpectedly.

"Oh, uh... hi Cindy. Oh! Uh... hi Jim as well! Didn't expect to see you two here today. I'm just finishing up the work on the servers... well bye" (thinks: "wow, her hair was really messed up... like really really messed up... OH, uh, wait a minute! Oh shiiiit!! They were totally doin' it, and heard me in the hallway!
Had 30 seconds to stop before I got to his office!! ")

So, now, having witnessed that - dang should I have said something??

~

No. And actually, in this case, Cindy had all the power, and Jim was putting himself at great risk by doin' it with her.

Cindy was a family member of the founders; which was a really big deal. The grocery store chain had her last name on it. The family members were "special", given enormous consideration and respect. They managed their situation within the company rather privately, and were untouchable (from an employment perspective, cough). So Cindy literally could not be fired; when family members were judged not competent, they were inevitably given some other job.

So. There's also a possibility that they just liked each other, and liked doin' it, and that's the thought I went with as I went about my day not saying anything.*

If someone posted "Pay it forward! Do something nice today!", would you be huffy about them dictating your behavior?

It would depend on why they would say it; but, if I pushed back and there was a bevy of yentas screaming that I was foul, and part of the non-niceness problem, is.. is that cool?

Level of difficulty of the question: the demand was that I do something nice. The bevy is doing something not nice.




* OMG if you woulda seen Cindy. OMG. And then seeing her with her hair mussed up like that. OMG.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The latter. It's doing nothing at all.

Which includes that it's barely even a case of "behave others".

I can't remember when I last witnessed a specific incident. (After 9th grade.)
...
I have never seen a colleague play grabass with an unwilling secretary, or chase her around the desk cartoon-style, a la some sort of mid-60s sitcom.

That's good. If you did see that, would you prefer that everyone else just averted their eyes and let the colleague do that?

Have you? What was it?

Like I said, I also don't recall such an incident.

So, now, having witnessed that - dang should I have said something??

As described, it doesn't sound like harassment. It sounds like you've given some thought into what the ramifications of reporting it to HR would be.

It would depend on why they would say it; but, if I pushed back and there was a bevy of yentas screaming that I was foul, and part of the non-niceness problem, is.. is that cool?

Level of difficulty of the question: the demand was that I do something nice. The bevy is doing something not nice.

My difficulty is in viewing a "do good things" posted out into the ether as an onerous demand on you in particular.

If I saw that someone had posted "pay it forward", I would appreciate the sentiment, but through inertia and laziness probably fail to actually do it. If instead, I had interpreted it as an unreasonable demand on my personal time, and complained to the poster that there are so many reasons NOT to pay it forward, I would expect that to be an unpopular position.

Now, I have no idea just how horrible the yenta apes were to you, so they may very well have gone too far, in which case it's for the best to disconnect as you did. But I also don't really get what you were going for with your initial reply to them.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Which includes that it's barely even a case of "behave others".
That's good. If you did see that, would you prefer that everyone else just averted their eyes and let the colleague do that?
Like I said, I also don't recall such an incident.
As described, it doesn't sound like harassment. It sounds like you've given some thought into what the ramifications of reporting it to HR would be.My difficulty is in viewing a "do good things" posted out into the ether as an onerous demand on you in particular.

If I saw that someone had posted "pay it forward", I would appreciate the sentiment, but through inertia and laziness probably fail to actually do it. If instead, I had interpreted it as an unreasonable demand on my personal time, and complained to the poster that there are so many reasons NOT to pay it forward, I would expect that to be an unpopular position.

Now, I have no idea just how horrible the yenta apes were to you, so they may very well have gone too far, in which case it's for the best to disconnect as you did. But I also don't really get what you were going for with your initial reply to them.

This.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

If you did see that, would you prefer that everyone else just averted their eyes and let the colleague do that?

are you just a being a dick. do we have a problem here.