U.S. Can Not Detain Legal Residents Without Charge

Originally Posted by Aliantha

rkz, I'm assuming from your posts that you think it's ok for Klan meetings to take place and as long as they only talk about how much they hate non whites and only say the things they'd like to do to them it's ok?

"Only talk about"?
What do you mean by that?
They can talk about what ever they want. That is freedom. Just because people don't like it does not mean they don't have the right.
Our beliefs disgust them as much as theirs disgust us. It is the SAME THING.
People are dying now so they continue to have the right to speak their mind.
It is the reason our nation was formed.

In Skokie IL, the Civil Liberties Union defended the Klan's right to demonstrate in that very Jewish town

A Jewish man defended them, a patriot.

You dislike them so much, do you only talk about it? Same thing.
Perhaps we should not just limit their rights like the Nazis did the Jews in Germany, as Europe is doing now... perhaps we should make them wear a symbol on their clothing? Is that good enough? Why let them breed? Why not just get rid of them for good?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It's the First Amendment he's referring to. Free speech means Klansmen, Black Panthers, anybody.



It's not that hate speech isn't harmful. It's that we're not willing to risk the possibility that by restricting their speech, someone will someday find a way to restrict our own. We are, as a nation, deeply against anything that even appears to be a slippery slope.

Yes, I know he's referring to the First Amendment, and I am aware that it applies to everybody. Just as it applies to everybody, when the expressions of views cross the line over to conduct. Conspiring to harm and personal intimidation are not protected by the First Amendment.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Personal intimidation is not protected, but looking scary is. Just because someone is afraid doesn't make it rational or reasonable.
Just because someone cowers in the corner booth, when a bunch of fierce looking bikers enter the bar, doesn't make it their fault. Nor are they compelled to change their dress or swagger.

Originally Posted by Aliantha
rkz, I'm assuming from your posts that you think it's ok for Klan meetings to take place and as long as they only talk about how much they hate non whites and only say the things they'd like to do to them it's ok?

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

"Only talk about"?
What do you mean by that?
They can talk about what ever they want. That is freedom. Just because people don't like it does not mean they don't have the right.
Our beliefs disgust them as much as theirs disgust us. It is the SAME THING.
People are dying now so they continue to have the right to speak their mind.
It is the reason our nation was formed.

A Jewish man defended them, a patriot.

You dislike them so much, do you only talk about it? Same thing.
Perhaps we should not just limit their rights like the Nazis did the Jews in Germany, as Europe is doing now... perhaps we should make them wear a symbol on their clothing? Is that good enough? Why let them breed? Why not just get rid of them for good?

Heeelllllooooooooo?

[Aliantha]

So they can't be arrested for 'conspiring to do whatever' because they're perfectly within their rights to talk all they like.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So they can't be arrested for 'conspiring to do whatever' because they're perfectly within their rights to talk all they like.

Correct. They are protected under our Consitution. As are the Nazi's and New Black Panther Party.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So they can't be arrested for 'conspiring to do whatever' because they're perfectly within their rights to talk all they like.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Correct. They are protected under our Consitution. As are the Nazi's and New Black Panther Party.

Well, no--that sort of thing is not protected under the Constitution. They can do it, and not be arrested for it, though.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So they can't be arrested for 'conspiring to do whatever' because they're perfectly within their rights to talk all they like.

The 'crossed line' is a difference between "only talk about how much they hate non whites" verses "planning to actually perform a violent crime". We can talk all we want about the scumbag president. But the minute we talk about killing him, expect a visit by Federal agents. Another example of 'crossing the line'; when exercising one's rights imposes unacceptably on the rights of others.

In Skokie IL, the Civil Liberties Union defended the Klan's right to demonstrate in that very Jewish town. KKK had the right to declare hate of Jews. They had no right to plan actions that called for murdering Jews.

[Aliantha]

Well we all know that people who live their lives talking about hating others, rarely live their lives only talking about hating others.

This is why I and most likely others don't agree that allowing people to express these sorts of hatred in public is a good thing.

If someone can explain or show me some evidence that this sort of talk is not harmful then I'm all ears (or eyes as the case may be).

[bluecuracao]

I don't know, I get the feeling that many of those who talk so much about their hate for others, actually base their lives on it. Like a desperate grasp to feel better about themselves. That's why these groups form, I think.

[bluecuracao]

There is a lot of propoganda floating around out there--and if you trace it to its source, it all comes from organized groups. They try to disguise it as random opinion, but there's always something sketchy about it.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

There is a lot of propoganda floating around out there--and if you trace it to its source, it all comes from organized groups. They try to disguise it as random opinion, but there's always something sketchy about it.

Well stated. I see it that way as well.

[DanaC]

The thing is, in Europe we had a rather sharp lesson about what happens when hate groups are allowed to fester unhindered. On the whole, over the years, very few people have actually gone far enough to be prosecutable, and even then mostly juries throw them out. It's a fine line similar to the line just described between talking about, and planning to.

The exceptions to that are symbols like swastikas, or holocaust denial. The holocaust denial bit I think is taken as a slander against the Jewish race. Swastikas, because of what they stand for in European culture, are seen as inherently inciting racial hatred.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Well, no--that sort of thing is not protected under the Constitution. They can do it, and not be arrested for it, though.

It's the First Amendment he's referring to. Free speech means Klansmen, Black Panthers, anybody.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

If someone can explain or show me some evidence that this sort of talk is not harmful then I'm all ears (or eyes as the case may be).

It's not that hate speech isn't harmful. It's that we're not willing to risk the possibility that by restricting their speech, someone will someday find a way to restrict our own. We are, as a nation, deeply against anything that even appears to be a slippery slope.

When I worked in LA I used to joke around with my, actual/original, southern dialect (before I neutralized it). It was a predominantly gay company, very PC.
I was called into my boss' office because it "scared" some of my fellow office members.
I laughed and did not stop.
That kind of stuff should be ignored...
People do not have a right not to be afraid of others.